Are redemption arcs still a thing?

The media industry gave us classical Heroes (in white hats) who quite often began as downtrodden nobodies who rose through difficulties to achieve greatness, by following a moral path and righting wrongs.

The next generation gave us morally ambiguous antiheroes who did bad things to achieve good ends.

Batman is perhaps the archetype for this. He is rich, he wears a mask to hide his true identity, he is somewhat shady to say the least, not only that he beats the crap into people, there is also the bondage aspect with Selina the cat woman. 

The next generation gave us empathy for the bad guys. For example, Megamind and Malificent are cartoonified bad people who used evil methods to achieve terrible ends. But we understand them, we share their pain, so we forgive them. We are encouraged to love them for their flaws. I blame Darth Vader for this.

What's next?

I believe the next step is self-sacrifice. The Darth Vader-kind of arc, but more in the old style: Even if a villain "redeems" themselves, part of that redemption will be death. Remember: The left will never give up their control of the media or cultural institutions (like publishing, film, games, etc.); they will make it seem as though it is enough to die to be considered a hero, so their antifuh's will be willing to be an-hero for the cause. If they are vanquished, then I believe the quirky hero who sometimes does more damage than good, would be the next logical step. Like the dirty pair.

The sacrificial hero is a spooky thought, but I can totally see it. Make those you've swayed morally and politically to start buying into the dream of being a martyr... With the recent events in the US politically, I can only see it getting worse if that is the way the media goes.

Batman is an anti-hero... I don't think you know the meaning of those words or jack shit about Batman.

Megamind is a villain that undergoes said redemption arc and becomes the hero...

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2025, 04:38:26 AMBatman is an anti-hero... I don't think you know the meaning of those words or jack shit about Batman.

Megamind is a villain that undergoes said redemption arc and becomes the hero...

Honestly, I think one reason Darth Vader is so iconic is precisely because he ends his story with a redemption arc.

I think there's something in human nature that loves a good redemption arc almost more than any other story.

We've all screwed up and if even someone that bad can be redeemed and forgiven then surely we can too.

Redemption arcs that don't end in death are usually really badly executed. Catra in NuShe-Ra, the Diamonds in Stephen Universe... they do horrible unforgivable stuff like multiple counts of genocide, never take responsibility, but get forgiven because they're hot women who get paired off with the hero.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2025, 02:59:07 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2025, 04:38:26 AMBatman is an anti-hero... I don't think you know the meaning of those words or jack shit about Batman.

Megamind is a villain that undergoes said redemption arc and becomes the hero...

Honestly, I think one reason Darth Vader is so iconic is precisely because he ends his story with a redemption arc.

I think there's something in human nature that loves a good redemption arc almost more than any other story.

We've all screwed up and if even someone that bad can be redeemed and forgiven then surely we can too.

Well, he's more iconic than Palpatine or any other Sith, which points to you being fucking correct.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 06, 2025, 03:30:41 PMRedemption arcs that don't end in death are usually really badly executed. Catra in NuShe-Ra, the Diamonds in Stephen Universe... they do horrible unforgivable stuff like multiple counts of genocide, never take responsibility, but get forgiven because they're hot women who get paired off with the hero.

More than the death of the villain it's that part that makes a good redemption arc:

Venom, Megamind and many others started as villains, took responsibility and worked to gain redemption.

Unlike your examples where they start as villains and the only reason all their sins are forgiven it's because wahmen.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2025, 07:08:42 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2025, 02:59:07 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2025, 04:38:26 AMBatman is an anti-hero... I don't think you know the meaning of those words or jack shit about Batman.

Megamind is a villain that undergoes said redemption arc and becomes the hero...

Honestly, I think one reason Darth Vader is so iconic is precisely because he ends his story with a redemption arc.

I think there's something in human nature that loves a good redemption arc almost more than any other story.

We've all screwed up and if even someone that bad can be redeemed and forgiven then surely we can too.

Well, he's more iconic than Palpatine or any other Sith, which points to you being fucking correct.

Which is somewhat weird when you consider that, once they started expanding on the Sith, Vader was supposed to be an atypical Sith, but it's hard to work against the first impressions he sets.

Quote from: HappyDaze on January 06, 2025, 07:42:06 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2025, 07:08:42 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2025, 02:59:07 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2025, 04:38:26 AMBatman is an anti-hero... I don't think you know the meaning of those words or jack shit about Batman.

Megamind is a villain that undergoes said redemption arc and becomes the hero...

Honestly, I think one reason Darth Vader is so iconic is precisely because he ends his story with a redemption arc.

I think there's something in human nature that loves a good redemption arc almost more than any other story.

We've all screwed up and if even someone that bad can be redeemed and forgiven then surely we can too.

Well, he's more iconic than Palpatine or any other Sith, which points to you being fucking correct.

Which is somewhat weird when you consider that, once they started expanding on the Sith, Vader was supposed to be an atypical Sith, but it's hard to work against the first impressions he sets.

It's not the author who decides what's iconic/memorable, it's the public.

There are other bad ass Sith, but they all ARE evil, unless the expectator is one of those who identifies with evil Vader remains the more iconic.

Maybe BECAUSE he was atypical.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2025, 07:11:36 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 06, 2025, 03:30:41 PMRedemption arcs that don't end in death are usually really badly executed. Catra in NuShe-Ra, the Diamonds in Stephen Universe... they do horrible unforgivable stuff like multiple counts of genocide, never take responsibility, but get forgiven because they're hot women who get paired off with the hero.

More than the death of the villain it's that part that makes a good redemption arc:

Venom, Megamind and many others started as villains, took responsibility and worked to gain redemption.

Unlike your examples where they start as villains and the only reason all their sins are forgiven it's because wahmen.

In visual media it's wahmen. In romance novels, men guilty of war crimes are routinely forgiven because they're the love interest. This is so common that it's become a regular subject of satire.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2025, 02:59:07 PMHonestly, I think one reason Darth Vader is so iconic is precisely because he ends his story with a redemption arc.

Darth Vader??
Really? - No a big NOPE. "
"Darth Vader" is the evil Darfk Side influenced persona. someone named Anakin Skywalker is the only who can be 'redeemed'.
That evil piece of pleq CHOSE evil and the darfk side. Throwing one old man over a railing does not 'redeem' him. (at all, ever).

 He never stofd trial or paid for his crimes.

- Ed C.