Quote from: EngineI'm not clear: why can't the frustrated director direct, or the frustrated writer write, if the frustrated wargamer can wargame?

I say this with no malice whatsoever: lack of talent.

Quote from: EngineI'm not clear: why can't the frustrated director direct, or the frustrated writer write, if the frustrated wargamer can wargame?

Actually these days with self publishing and digital tech they can - write or direct*. I don't really subscribe to the idea that railroaders are frustrated writers or directors or whatever. Most times these folks are playing with the wrong group.

*Being recognized is another thing entirely.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RActually these days with self publishing and digital tech they can - write or direct*. I don't really subscribe to the idea that railroaders are frustrated writers or directors or whatever. Most times these folks are playing with the wrong group.

*Being recognized is another thing entirely.

Regards,
David R

This to me is the put-up-or-shut-up danger of trying to make gaming into a performance art rather than an entertaining activity. You can suck at it. You think your'e a master thespian? Film it. Record it.  Put it on Youtube. Put it up for download so we can all act as an audience armed with salmonella-tomatoes and bouquets of sweet, sweet roses. Let the people judge. There's nothing to fear here but your own mediocrity, so all of the improv advocates need to start putting their shit up so we can see it.  

 The media has been democratized.

Or...

You know, we could all just go back to gaming for fun.

Quote from: Abyssal MawThis to me is the put-up-or-shut-up danger of trying to make gaming into a performance art rather than an entertaining activity. You can suck at it. You think your'e a master thespian? Film it. Record it.  Put it on Youtube. Put it up for download so we can all act as an audience armed with salmonella-tomatoes and bouquets of sweet, sweet roses. Let the people judge. There's nothing to fear here but your own mediocrity, so all of the improv advocates need to start putting their shit up so we can see it.  

 The media has been democratized.

Or...

You know, we could all just go back to gaming for fun.

What the hell are you going on about ? What does my answer to Engine's question have to do with your obsession of people who think their games are art ?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RWhat the hell are you going on about ? What does my answer to Engine's question have to do with your obsession of people who think their games are art ?

Regards,
David R

Your answer was this:

"Actually these days with self publishing and digital tech they can - write or direct*. ...

*Being recognized is another thing entirely."

I just cut out the part where you gave them a break.

The issues are completely related. writing/directing/the bizarro hard-on they have for improv. the accusation that a person is a frustrated whatever if they want to do whatever. You don't see it?

if gaming is about playing rather than a performance art, you can NEVER have the "frustrated writer" accusation. It simply doesn't apply. You might as well say "frustrated window washer."

Quote from: Abyssal MawYour answer was this:

"Actually these days with self publishing and digital tech they can - write or direct*. ...

*Being recognized is another thing entirely."

I just cut out the part where you gave them a break.

The issues are completely related. writing/directing/the bizarro hard-on they have for improv. the accusation that a person is a frustrated whatever if they want to do whatever. You don't see it?

No I don't.

I already stated that I don't subscribe to the idea of frustrated writers/directors in gaming. Engine asked why can't writers or directors write or direct ? I said they can. The recognition part is about ego. Some people are not content just producing their work. They want to be recognised for it.

You think improv is a sign of being a frustrated writer or director ?

Quoteif gaming is about playing rather than a performance art, you can NEVER have the "frustrated writer" accusation. It simply doesn't apply. You might as well say "frustrated window washer."

Playing also includes roleplaying and world creation and all that other stuff, that's why I think there's this accusation of frustrated writer/director.


Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RNo I don't.

I already stated that I don't subscribe to the idea of frustrated writers/directors in gaming. Engine asked why can't writers or directors write or direct ? I said they can. The recognition part is about ego. Some people are not content just producing their work. They want to be recognised for it.

You think improv is a sign of being a frustrated writer or director ?

Regards,
David R

I think it's a sign of being a frustrated and perhaps even cowardly wannabe performer of some type, and they choose a format where they can talk it up with very little risk of being actually judged by any audience. Like, Michael Scott from the Office, (also a fan of Improv) they fancy themselves as performers, they use verbs like "rock out" (as if they have ever "rocked out"), and ape the qualities of a talented person, but in such a way that they never have to prove it.

But you know the thing is, none of that shit is necessary if gaming is just gaming. You don't have to "rock out" to game. You can't/don't "rock out" to Poker or Mah Jong or even Pictionary, and those games all require a certain amount of talent.

So why don't the frustrated writers and directors actually write and direct? I mean, Youtube is right there. Almost every digital camera has a video mode. Gimp is free. Music software is everywhere. They talk about writing and directing stories as discreet entities constantly. They can be writing and directing at any point and yet they choose not to.

Why? Thats my question

I'm going to go "rock out" to D&D campaign design* for a while I guess.







* Egad, I just had to laugh even posting that!

Quote from: Abyssal MawSo why don't the frustrated writers and directors actually write and direct? I mean, Youtube is right there. Almost every digital camera has a video mode. Gimp is free. Music software is everywhere.  

I know, this is what I said. There's no reason why writers/directors should not be able to do what they want to do. Which was my reply to Engine.

As for the rest your post, welll it's the usual rant against against a specific group of gamers. Nothing new here.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RI know, this is what I said. There's no reason why writers/directors should not be able to do what they want to do. Which was my reply to Engine.

As for the rest your post, welll it's the usual rant against against a specific group of gamers. Nothing new here.

Regards,
David R

The reason you are fun, David, is you have the hilarious desire to jump in defend people who you aren't even sure who they are from me saying things you aren't sure you even understand. But you know you have to get involved, and for that, I award you the fist of excellence.

Quote from: John MorrowNot necessarily.  Role-playing and wargaming are social activities and I can imagine a person who would rather be wargaming who is stuck role-playing being a "frustrated wargamer", and have played with people something like that -- people who would prefer not the be role-playing but who goes along with it because that's what everyone else wants to do.

I considered that when I made my post, and I'm certain it exists somewhere.

My point isn't so much that they don't exist, it's that the professional nature of Director/Writer produces an completely different class of 'frustrated' than a poor bastard who can't find anyone to play a wargame with. It's also that they are much rarer.

As to other types of people who play rpgs when they'd rather not... start a list. It may be another interesting topic.

Quote from: David RI already stated that I don't subscribe to the idea of frustrated writers/directors in gaming. Engine asked why can't writers or directors write or direct ? I said they can. The recognition part is about ego. Some people are not content just producing their work. They want to be recognised for it.

Thus rpgs.

It's very easy to be recognised for one's rpg in one's own group. And generally easier to get rpg gamers to sit still for it than it is to get people to read bad writing or watch a crappy youtube production.

The reason is simple- people don't have a lot of choice when it comes to GMs. They have the whole world when they are looking for books or movies.

Quote from: Abyssal MawThe reason you are fun, David, is you have the hilarious desire to jump in defend people who you aren't even sure who they are from me saying things you aren't sure you even understand. But you know you have to get involved, and for that, I award you the fist of excellence.

                               VILLAINY


Unlike some you not really hard to understand. Oh, you try to be. I suppose you're one of those guys who has invested a lot in being misunderstood. But at least you posts about the games you run, which makes you bearable.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: gleichmanThus rpgs.

It's very easy to be recognised for one's rpg in one's own group. And generally easier to get rpg gamers to sit still for it than it is to get people to read bad writing or watch a crappy youtube production.

The reason is simple- people don't have a lot of choice when it comes to GMs. They have the whole world when they are looking for books or movies.

Yeah, but this does not mean they are frustrated writers or directors, merely that they are attention whores.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RVILLAINY


Unlike some you not really hard to understand. Oh, you try to be. I suppose you're one of those guys who has invested a lot in being misunderstood. But at least you posts about the games you run, which makes you bearable.

Regards,
David R

Ouch! Words hurt, mister!



* possibly true!

Quote from: David RYeah, but this does not mean they are frustrated writers or directors, merely that they are attention whores.

Attention whores simply demand attention, and do whatever they can to get it. They exist in all hobbies and all professions.

The frustrated writer or director on the other hand is something special (hence why they have the name they do). They are specifically attempting to change the rpg to become more like their desired profession. As they can't succeed in real life, they instead attempt to find success in the game by redefining that game.