Quote from: Spinachcat;281349Hmm...this changes the equation dramatically.  Are you sure about this?

Fallen Angels by Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven and Michael Flynn was a "Thank You" book created in appreciation for science fiction fandom. (Spooky thing is, a lot of their dystopian predictions in the book's setting seem to be coming true.)

West of Honor by Jerry Pournelle was published by Baen Books in 1987, although it originally came out in 1976. It was later collected as part of Falkenberg's Legion in 1990.

Berserker Throne by Fred Saberhagen was published by Baen Books in 1985.

Paying the Piper by David Drake came out in 2002 for Baen Books, although some of the stories have appeared in earlier Hammer's Slammers collections. Same can be said for The Tank Lords which came out in 1997.

Now, these are known to me because I have them in my own hardcopy library. These appear to be books which have gone through pritings in the primary market and then petered out in sales. The Niven and Pournelle books were originally printed by a different publisher and when Baen Books bought the rights after that publisher went out of business (Signet Science Fiction/Fantasy if my memory serves), were published again by Baen.

Quote from: Technomancer;281237That's not the point.  Whether or not putting up books/videos/whatever for free increases sales, that decision should be up to the creator or the copyright holder

Too bad that genie's already out of the bottle. It's far better instead to learn how to go with the way things are now than to push against it arguing that going back is even possible.

Quote from: Spinachcat;281349I would not bet on this.   Maybe you are right, but technology moves quickly and billionaires are not going to sit idle when both technology and politics can be brought to bear as weapons.

I gotta say they've been trying that already, and so far I don't think there's been much progress except to prove how unlikely it is for digital piracy to be contained in any meaningful way.

Maybe instead we should examine what makes our IP laws so screwy that piracy is such a viable alternative for folks.

Quote from: CavScout;281350I guess you can keep saying it over and over, hoping it becomes true.

You should know.

RPGPundit

A good similiar example is Youtube and 'pink striping'. That wherte a favoriote YouTube iudeo is no longer available or the audio has been disabled because a copyright holder suddenly realized that YouTube exists and they got aggressive.

My two examples:   FIRST -  The Battlesta Galactica vid that used to be in my signature spot was timed to the song 'Let The Day Begin' by the band THE CALL.  It is because of that video that I sought out the song and band. END RESIULT: I bought a compact Disc of that group's greatest hits that included "Let The Day Begin".

I now discover that WMG has requested the audio be disabled on the YouTube video. What they don't realize is that the fan made video was bnasically FREE advertising for them!!

Example TWO - ERA , THE MASS. That one is still in my sig spot. I had trouble finding it locally, so a very cool person on here worked out a deal with me and Christmas time of 2007 I received a nice package at my store of the CD from Sam Goode. Again, because of discovering it on YouTube.....for Free.

- Ed C.

Good point, Ed. And your post also made me realize that the Monty Python thing is a valid comparison assuming they posted their YouTube material in response to others putting MP stuff on YouTube. The thing is though that to make money you either need to depend on goodwill (the shareware/pass the hat model) or you have to follow up with something you either cross-promote (like DVDs) or which becomes valuable because of the thing you're giving away. The latter is exemplified by the Gilette model; it'd be kind of like if a miniatures company published their rules as a free PDF to drive sales of their figures.

What IF people at corporations got smart and creative abnout things....

In my example of the nBSG/"Let the Day Begin" by the Call example. When WMG disdcovered that - insteade of disabling the audio they could have contacted the YouTube poster AND Universal television and possibly negotiated a cross-promotion right there so that there is a little advertisemernt/promo for both THE CALL Compact Discs and the nex nBSG DVD release .

 That way everyone is happy and we STILL get to see the YouTube video.

Heck - if YouTube let them they could even have put a click spot in there (url?) that takes YouTube members to a coupon that takes a few bucks off of their next BSG or Universal purcase ...as well as their next WMG compact disc purchase.

I would have used such a coupon. BORDERS books does that kind of thingf all the time over the web.

- Ed C.

Quote from: RPGPundit;281451You should know.

My offer still stands, I'll torrent the shit out of your games, brining you untold wealth and fame, if you just send me a copy.

FtA torrent's already out there, I hear.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;281461Good point, Ed. And your post also made me realize that the Monty Python thing is a valid comparison assuming they posted their YouTube material in response to others putting MP stuff on YouTube. The thing is though that to make money you either need to depend on goodwill (the shareware/pass the hat model) or you have to follow up with something you either cross-promote (like DVDs) or which becomes valuable because of the thing you're giving away. The latter is exemplified by the Gilette model; it'd be kind of like if a miniatures company published their rules as a free PDF to drive sales of their figures.

Speaking of Gillette, almost twenty years ago I recieved one of those funny razors in the mail. Now, if I weren't a Pika, and thus had some valid reason to actually.. shave... you might be able to this day enter my bathroom (just behind that rock over there) and find... a gillette razor.

Good Stuff.

Quote from: RPGPundit;281181Yes, piracy is so ruinous that when Monty Python recently made all their material freely available, their DVD sales went up 23000%.

Here's a link to that news.

Again and again, artists and writers who have experimented with making books, movies, tv shows, etc free on the internet have ended up discovering a truth that is highly inconvenient to the RIAA and MPAA; namely that putting shit up for free on the internet makes your sales go up.
SNIP

RPGPundit

Does that mean FTA is now free to download? :-)

Quote from: Lawbag;281595Does that mean FTA is now free to download? :-)

As we learned in the other piracy thread, while Pundit is vehemently in favor of piracy and against IP rights, he has refused to allow his own product the same treatment he shouts that others must simply accept. If any one were to link to a free downloand of his products they would be booted from the forum.

Quote from: CavScout;281622As we learned in the other piracy thread, while Pundit is vehemently in favor of piracy and against IP rights, he has refused to allow his own product the same treatment he shouts that others must simply accept. If any one were to link to a free downloand of his products they would be booted from the forum.

Sorry, was just playing devil's advocate

Something similar to this is going around video game sites right now.

It seems the piracy rate for DRMed software is around 90%.  The piracy rate for non-DRMed software is... around 90%.  

Meaning anti-piracy measures have no effect.  Pirates steal what they're going to steal, no matter what.

Again, for the record, I'm not a PUBLISHER. I don't get to decide how Flying Mice does their sales or marketing, that's not part of the deal.

RPGPundit