Quote from: gleichman;222847The reality of Dr. King as well of that of JFK has been remade into a new image, far removed from their beginnings.

It is fortunate for the Left that these men are dead, and unable to correct them. Otherwise they'd be hard pressed to find other figureheads that would be acceptable to anyone.

Quote from: Martin Luther KingThere are forty million poor people here. And one day we must ask the question, Why are there forty million poor people in America? And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth. When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy. And I'm simply saying that more and more, we've got to begin to ask questions about the whole society. We are called upon to help the discouraged beggars in life's marketplace. But one day we must come to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring. It means that questions must be raised. You see, my friends, when you deal with this, you begin to ask the question, Who owns the oil? You begin to ask the question, Who owns the iron ore? You begin to ask the question, Why is it that people have to pay water bills in a world that is two-thirds water? These are questions that must be asked.

...

He [Jesus] said, in other words, Your whole structure must be changed. A nation that will keep people in slavery for 244 years will thingify them—make them things. Therefore they will exploit them, and poor people generally, economically. And a nation that will exploit economically will have foreign investments and everything else, and will have to use its military to protect them. All of these problems are tied together.

more right-wing than usually depicted, or more left-wing?

Quote from: noisms;222862Who are you, Yoda?

That's right. I'm also twice your age, and I've been around the block a few times.

Quote from: droog;222872That's right. I'm also twice your age, and I've been around the block a few times.

Aha! If you really were Yoda, you'd be a lot more than twice my age....

Quote from: noisms;222874Aha! If you really were Yoda, you'd be a lot more than twice my age....

Cute with me do not get, sonny.

Just for the record and to avoid further rhetorical manipulations, I don't consider Howard a racist, nor his writing to have a particularly racist motivation.  Actually, he was probably relatively un-racist for his time.  But his writing does reflect certain assumptions of the period and his heroes are always white males.

I was reading Conan the Conqueror to my 6th grade class (we had 10 minutes of typing at the beginning of every class and I found reading a narrative to them calmed them way down and got them typing) and there were a few sentences that were pretty much racist. I completely didn't expect them and had to stop my reading in mid-sentence as I came to those sentences.  About half my class was black and they would have definitely heard the words.  It was about the guards that put Conan in the jail.  They were black and there is some reference to the colour of their skin that was directly related to the lowness of their character.

Quote from: gleichman;222864As noisms' age of 26 shows, he wasn't alive before most of those 'changes'. Many young people today object to the excesses the 60s brought. It's not a over and done deal and its unclear which side will prevail.

I said over the last century, virtually nobody was alive before those changes.

As for an over and done deal, of course it's not, and no side will prevail except for brief periods.  This is an ongoing debate that will last as long as the species does.

Quote from: Age of Fable;222871more right-wing than usually depicted, or more left-wing?

That quote is unconnected with Race, which was the subject of the thread. As individuals, one can have opinions from either the right or left on individual subjects.

As for being Color-blind, he would be rejected by today's Left and the Black Movement he was such an important part of.



"If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago, and a racist today." - Thomas Sowell.

Quote from: The_Shadow;222783You are like the guy that says it's unfair to judge a person by his face, while the experienced cop picks out the career crim in a crowd by the furrow of his brow.

Some PC types say they don't believe in phrenology at all!

Quote from: Balbinus;222878As for an over and done deal, of course it's not, and no side will prevail except for brief periods.  This is an ongoing debate that will last as long as the species does.

Nice crawdad there.

Quote from: walkerp;222876Just for the record and to avoid further rhetorical manipulations, I don't consider Howard a racist, nor his writing to have a particularly racist motivation.  Actually, he was probably relatively un-racist for his time.  But his writing does reflect certain assumptions of the period and his heroes are always white males.

I was reading Conan the Conqueror to my 6th grade class (we had 10 minutes of typing at the beginning of every class and I found reading a narrative to them calmed them way down and got them typing) and there were a few sentences that were pretty much racist. I completely didn't expect them and had to stop my reading in mid-sentence as I came to those sentences.  About half my class was black and they would have definitely heard the words.  It was about the guards that put Conan in the jail.  They were black and there is some reference to the colour of their skin that was directly related to the lowness of their character.

Howard does use some pretty ugly language to describe black characters, though that's far from unique to him sadly.

Are you sure he has no non-White heroes though?  What about in the Samarcand stories, might those not have some?  I own them but haven't read them yet.

That said, he like all the pulp guys was trying to make a living.  I'd expect the heroes to be white in part because the bulk of the readership probably was.

Quote from: gleichman;222881Nice crawdad there.

I have absolutely no idea what that means.

Quote from: walkerp;222876I was reading Conan the Conqueror to my 6th grade class (we had 10 minutes of typing at the beginning of every class and I found reading a narrative to them calmed them way down and got them typing) and there were a few sentences that were pretty much racist. I completely didn't expect them and had to stop my reading in mid-sentence as I came to those sentences.  About half my class was black and they would have definitely heard the words.  It was about the guards that put Conan in the jail.  They were black and there is some reference to the colour of their skin that was directly related to the lowness of their character.

We are all products of our times.

Quote from: Ned the Lonely Donkey;222754Hm, well, I've been working in professional/business/govt publishing for twenty years and avoiding or moderating pronouns in this way has been SOP since the 80s. If anything, RPGs were slow to catch on.

Ned

I just want to quote Ned the Lonely Donkey here from page 1.  Just a quick message from The Real World to those of you living in your basements, fuming at the PC agenda.

I'm arguing with you to help enlighten you so you have an easier time once you get out from mommy's house and into the big bad real world, not because I feel the need to win the argument.  This argument has already been won long before we started talking about it.  When you do get a job or something where you have to write instruction manuals or internal memos or whatever, I recommend you avoid making these anti-PC arguments.  Just for your own sake.

Hopefully, I'll get my plan in place before that and none of you will have to worry about it.  Barring that, I show you my goodwill by sharing this helpful info with you.

Good luck out there!

Quote from: Engine;222884We are all products of our times.

Christie is more than that actually, in one of her novels a drug is discovered which takes away the ability to be unhappy.  Left wing protestors are gassed with it, to take away their ability to challenge society.  It's presented as a happy ending.

She was many things, and blisteringly right wing was among those things.

QuoteJust for the record and to avoid further rhetorical manipulations, I don't consider Howard a racist, nor his writing to have a particularly racist motivation. Actually, he was probably relatively un-racist for his time. But his writing does reflect certain assumptions of the period and his heroes are always white males.

Again.  This is simply not true.

N'Longa is a black African who practices tribal magic.  N'Longa is one of Howard's heroes.

There are many others.  As I said before, check out the Outremer stories or the Afghan tales.  

Off the top of my head I can't think of too many female heroes in the stories.  However, instead of the assumptions of his time, I'd argue this is largely because Howards writings- while fantastic and bizarre- were grounded in history.  He wrote about warriors, and throughout all of human history the vast majority of warriors have been male.