Quote from: Koltar;222922Wow,...just WOW.

 That note from Monte Cook explains a lot.

Mainly why Regdar is shown dying on the floor on page 296 &297 of the 4th edition D&D Player's Handbook.







- Ed C.

He's not dying, Ed he's dead and being resurrected.

Resurrected as a cotton fiber wearing, vegan, sensitive girley man!

Or an elf.

Same thing really.

Quote from: Engine;222905The "I'm older than you" argument's getting a real workout today

I've only said it once. It seemed better than "You're naive, whippersnapper."

Quote from: Balbinus;222923No, and I didn't say that, or anything even remotely like that.  I don't even see how you got that from my post.

Balbinus, I fucking already quoted how I got that

Quote from: BalbinusTo be perfectly blunt, I think most people who rail loudly against political correctness (using that specific phrase) are unhappy that they can't have what they want without having to work for it

Now you have a simple choice.

1. Say something like "I can see how you thought I said that, those were poorly chosen words and I meant something different. I'm Sorry".

2. Say "I said it, and I stand by it".


And that's basically it. Which are you going to do?

Quote from: wulfgar;222887There are many others.  As I said before, check out the Outremer stories or the Afghan tales.  

Nope. The Afghan tales, the hero is a white male.  He's just super-tanned and has spent so much of his adult life in the desert, that he knows as much and more than the locals and can pass as one.  I'm trying to remember his name, because I just finished them, but I can't.

Which are the Outremer stories?

And again, I have no problem with his protagonists being white males.  Hell, I am one and proud of it, but I do wish I was wielding a big fucking scimitar and able to ride for 12 days to an oasis in colonial Khyber or perhaps brawling on the docks of Shanghai.

I'm just pointing out that the field is dominated by white males and a little variety is a good thing.

Quote from: Engine;222931My best players have always been female, and who have never roleplayed before joining our groups.

That has also been true for many of the groups that I have run.
Also, women players like to recruit their friends into trying an RPG if they're have a good time in a campaign.

Just a trend or pattern that I've noticed.


- Ed

Quote from: Balbinus;222902To be perfectly blunt, I think most people who rail loudly against political correctness (using that specific phrase) are unhappy that they can't have what they want without having to work for it, and I have limited sympathy for them.  That or they just resent others enjoying what they already have.

Hell fucking yes.  If you are going to become civil, Balbinus, I'll say it.  These PC-paranoia types are a bunch of entitled whiny bitches who have never really suffered in their life and are freaked out by the idea that maybe they can't drive an SUV or have to compete equally with a more determined woman or immigrant instead of just being able to get the job their daddy had.  It's fucking pathetic and an embarrassment to the rest of us white males who know that it's about working hard and sucking it up and rising to the top on your own terms.  It's called 50 years of success and entitlement with no hardships at all so they have lost the meaning of what it means to really suffer.

I actually don't necessarily include Gleichman in the above condemnation just because he is on some higher plane of right-wing thought crystallization that I can't really comprehend.

But the rest of you, whining like the little bitches that you are because someone added the letter 's' to half the pronouns in your precious gaming books, I recommend you do some push-ups or something.  Maybe go out and try and meet a woman and have sex with her.  Anything to get your balls back.  Kee-rist.

Quote from: gleichman;222941Balbinus, I fucking already quoted how I got that



Now you have a simple choice.

1. Say something like "I can see how you thought I said that, those were poorly chosen words and I meant something different. I'm Sorry".

2. Say "I said it, and I stand by it".


And that's basically it. Which are you going to do?

Dude, I was criticising a perception of entitlement, an assumption that by virtue of being male and white and born to a certain strata of society that you are entitled to success without having to work for it.  A sense of entitlement that leads to criticising others who are succeeding, to reaching for chimera like political correctness as an explanation for their success and the complainant's failure, when really the complainant is failing because they're just not willing to work hard.

I said absolutely nothing, even in that bit you requote, about political correctness itself, nor of any beneficiaries it may have.  I spoke about what making that complaint using that specific phrase says about those who make it, nothing more.

I'm aware incidentally that similar arguments can be used against many other people who have a sense of entitlement and that this is but one of many species of entitlement, just to avoid some response about do I think nobody else feels a sense of entitlement.  

Noisms understood me I think perfectly well, which is why he said it was essentially an ad hominem.  I don't think my point was particularly hard to understand, unless it was read with a preconception about my views.  He understood it and that's why he objected to it, which I thought in the circumstances was fair of him.

Nothing in that segment you quoted implies that I think political correctness gives things to people or itself rewards work or is some sort of corporation, that really is your misreading and it really isn't my view.  I think if you weren't so irate in this thread, you would have taken a bit longer and would have seen clearly what my point was.  You might well still have disagreed with it or objected to it, but I don't think it was particularly unclear.

In a handful of posts you've totally lost it with two different posters, I think you've lost your temper and you aren't reading people clearly.

Quote from: Engine;222931My best players have always been female, and who have never roleplayed before joining our groups.

My worst players have always been female, and who have never roleplayed before joining our groups.

They are the reason I instituted the No Girlfriends rule in my campaign.  Got tired of my male players trying to stem off their girlfriends complaints that they didn't spend enough time together by bring her to a game.  I don't like having to explain which one is the D20 ten times a night.  Ruins my fun.

Quote from: walkerp;222943Which are the Outremer stories?

I have those but haven't read them yet, I think though the protagonists are Franks and thus white.

That said, as I said above I think that regardless of other factors there were sound commercial reasons for having white male heroes.  I don't think we can read anything meaningful into that either way.

Quote from: Balbinus;222950In a handful of posts you've totally lost it with two different posters, I think you've lost your temper and you aren't reading people clearly.

One person started producing edited and unsourced quotes, basically lying. And you think it's my fault?

And now you're dodging the fucking question like you were Obama or something. And you think it's my fault?


It's simple"

1) "I'm sorry; I did not mean to say that you are child of entitlement who afraid of work simply because you oppose political correctness".

2) "Yes I did mean that. You are a child of entitlement who is afraid of work. I know this because you oppose political correctness".


Now which damn one is it Balbinus?

Quote from: walkerp;222948Hell fucking yes.  If you are going to become civil, Balbinus, I'll say it.  These PC-paranoia types are a bunch of entitled whiny bitches who have never really suffered in their life and are freaked out by the idea that maybe they can't drive an SUV or have to compete equally with a more determined woman or immigrant instead of just being able to get the job their daddy had.  It's fucking pathetic and an embarrassment to the rest of us white males who know that it's about working hard and sucking it up and rising to the top on your own terms.  It's called 50 years of success and entitlement with no hardships at all so they have lost the meaning of what it means to really suffer.

Hey Balbinus! Look here. Walker got it the same way I did. Want to try and palm this off on my not reading your post correctly again?

I'm late to the party, but I'll just say this - you can pry the use of proper English out of my dead, cold hands.  Third person singular of the neutral gender is "he" in proper English.  I have no inclination for the stupidity of political-correctness or the pointlessness of gender-inclusive writing.

Next thing will be some moron telling us we need to start using the terms "womyn" and "herstory" instead of "women" and "history" because its more gender-sensitive.  I say, take that crap back to the Women's Studies department and leave us sane people alone.

Quote from: gleichman;222958One person started producing edited and unsourced quotes, basically lying. And you think it's my fault?

And now you're dodging the fucking question like you were Obama or something. And you think it's my fault?


It's simple"

1) "I'm sorry; I did not mean to say that you are child of entitlement who afraid of work simply because you oppose political correctness".

2) "Yes I did mean that. You are a child of entitlement who is afraid of work. I know this because you oppose political correctness".


Now which damn one is it Balbinus?

He misquoted, it's worth correcting, I'm not persuaded it's worth more than that.  His misquote wasn't your fault, your loss of temper ultimately is.

I defend things I say, and have done so, I really do feel I've clarified enough to be perfectly clear.  I don't defend other people's recasting of what I say.  I didn't say either of one or two above, and I refuse to be badgered into defending words being put into my mouth.

Quote from: gleichman;222963Hey Balbinus! Look here. Walker got it the same way I did. Want to try and palm this off on my not reading your post correctly again?

That's not what you came back to me on at all Brian, you came back to me about my saying that political correctness gave something to people.  Noisms objected to the argument against the individual, as best I can tell until I restated it you wholly missed it.  Certainly you made no reference to it until I explained the whole thing again in detail.

What you said was, leaving out a final sentence I think is not directly salient to your point:

"You are joking right?

You think PC gives things to people who "work for it"? PC is actually a Corperation that pays a wage? Good lord, I didn't know that. How much do you make?

Or is "working for it" maybe something like... debating people online about the use of PC itself. You know, attempting to reverse a negative change in our culture.

Or can that sort of "working for it" only be done by those supporting it?"

None of that has anything to do with what Walker is talking about.  You've recast your objection as an objection to the ad hominem rather than an objection to a belief which you saw but which was not there that somehow political correctness itself rewards hard work.

Engine: My best players have always been female, and who have never roleplayed before joining our groups.

Jackalope: My worst players have always been female, and who have never roleplayed before joining our groups.


Personally, the worst players I have met where both men and women who had never gamed before joining the group. I have also had some bad experiences with couples around the table; but my current group has one and they are ok people.

I don't think it's a gender issue. It's a personality / mental stability one. It comes down on what you are as a social person, regardless of your genitalia.

Quote from: walkerp;222948Hell fucking yes.  If you are going to become civil, Balbinus, I'll say it.  [SNIP]

Dammit Walker! You make me wish you where my father.