Quote from: JimBobOzIt's okay talk about wanting to kill millions of children, but not to want to molest one of them?

I confess I find this morality confusing.

It's an American thing.  Sex squicks us out, violence, especially on a mass scale, doesn't faze us.

Quote from: JimBobOzInteresting approach, HinterWelt.

Tell me, were you aware of mythusmage's topic ban? It's discussed here. Essentially, mythusmage used to speak in favour of adult-child sexual relations. This disgusted quite a few people, and RPGPundit gave him a topic ban, saying,

I am puzzled as to why molesting children causes offence and people agree with a topic ban, and threatened full ban if the topic ban is broken, but advocating genocide doesn't cause the same offence.

It's okay talk about wanting to kill millions of children, but not to want to molest one of them?

I confess I find this morality confusing.

So, HinterWelt, do you support mythusmage's topic ban? In what way does his topic ban differ from the topic ban I'm suggesting on Dominus Nox? (Keep him out of Off-Topic forums) In what way does a suggestion that if he breaks the topic ban, he be fully-banned, differ from one guy to the other?

Or should we ask RPGPundit to let mythusmage start chatting about his views on adult-child sexual relations again?

I was never talking about a topic ban. I was talking about a ban from the site. Personally, I could care less about area specific/topic bans.

And, despite you usual attack stance, I am neither in favor of genocide nor child molestation. I never said I was.

Bill

So you'd be happy with him having a topic-ban?

Quote from: David REdit: I'm really interested in finding out, where he advocated the killing of conservatives and Christians.

I may have just been taking his comments on them being a threat to civilization and that they should be fought and beaten at all costs to its logical extreme, but that was probably just me. Sorry 'bout that.

Quote from: JimBobOzSo you'd be happy with him having a topic-ban?

I would not vote against it.

Bill

He gets a verbal kicking every time he talks crap, so where's the problem? If anything he provides an opportunity to demonstrate that - overall - the forum is better than it is otherwise painted.

In light of his consistent snipes from my Ignore List (thanks everybody for quoting him, really), I elect not to comment on the prospect of banning Nox, though I think he is something of a turd on the coffee table at our little party here.

I will, however, take some umbrage at the suggestion that I must fight him tooth and nail at every turn to not be lumped in with him in the "murderous bigot" category. To take a page from our self-appointed guardian of good conversation, must I also argue against flat earth and brilliant ether theory every time they come up for it to be understood that they are absurd?

I'd vote for ban the fuckwit.  Not because of his bigotry and other isms but because he does drag his OT threadcrapping into rpg threads.

How often have you seen him wail on Cessna or Koltar or Christmas Ape for their supposed crimes - adding nothing to the topic in question but tainting every thread he "contributes" to with his particular brand of bile.

I used to be against any kind of ban for Nox, his four tirades and how he'd fit them into any topic were entertaining.  But he's gone from that into spouting  shite wherever he goes, it can't be anything but detrimental for this site.

Sure, he'd love to be banned from the site that claims it won't ban people, but I think it's in our best interests to give him what he wants in this instance.

Quote from: The Good AssyrianOne thing that bothers me about this whole thing is that I am sure this is *exactly* how Tangency led to the long slide to bad moderation on tBP.  The kinds of discussions in Off Topic naturally lead to more heated debates because they can strike at the heart of our identities far more readily than a discussion of your favorite RPG can.  I would suggest getting rid of Off Topic all together, but I know that it would only lead to this crap bleeding into the gaming forums.  But I have to wonder if we start banning people for stuff they say in Off Topic, when they are arguably productive in the gaming forums, that we will be starting down a long road that will end up in a place that I would prefer this site never go.


TGA

I think you got to the heart of the thing right there, Assyrian.

Show me that Nox is generally disrupting the site, in ways I have already warned him not to, by shitting all over a GURPS discussion or taking a thread about D&D and turning it into a diatribe against muslims without provocation, and then we've got something to talk about.

Nox going apeshit on the off-topic forums, in topics that he creates that are on-topic, really isn't something bannable.  The reason to ban him would then become "I really don't like what he says".

And let's face it, what Nox says sucks ass, when he's not talking about RPGs. And it unfortunately tends to taint the quality of anything he says, period. There have been times when I've looked at something Nox wrote that's RPG-related and thought "shit, I'd have really taken that seriously/been interested, if it hadn't been Nox who wrote that".

But if we're really about free thought on here, then that's exactly the kind of writing that has to be defended. As long as he's following the guidelines of where and how to write it (and doesn't violate the very very limited rules of the site on this regard by posting, say, hardcore porn or links to illegal sites), Nox has as much right to write his disgusting stupid rants, as Jrients has to write a thread about Star Wars.

RPG.net started with banning certain "extremists" who were saying things that almost everyone agreed was "banworthy", and ended up banning people for anything that the tiny minority in power dislike.  I won't go that way.

If Nox gets banned, it will be due to his own stupidity in breaking the rules/restrictions that have been placed upon him, not just because I don't like what he says (or anyone else doesn't like what he says).

RPGPundit

Quote from: The Good AssyrianI agree.  Off Topic is buried way down the list after a large number of gaming related forums.  It is not our front porch.  It is apparently a necessary evil to keep the monkeys from flinging poo in the parts of the site that are critical to its core mission, namely good quality disussions about gaming.


TGA

That is precisely the one and only reason I have an Off Topic forum.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditShow me that Nox is generally disrupting the site, in ways I have already warned him not to, by shitting all over a GURPS discussion or taking a thread about D&D and turning it into a diatribe against muslims without provocation, and then we've got something to talk about.

Show me that mythusmage was generally disrupting the site by shitting all over some rpg discussion with his talk of the inherent goodness of sexual relations between adults and children.

If we can ban paedophilia talk, I don't see why we can't ban genocide talk; if we can allow one, we should allow the other.

And for that matter, I can start posting up some hardcore pr0n, yeah? Sure, it might offend people, but so long as I only do it in Off-Topic that's okay, yeah? Or is a picture of a vulva more offensive than advocating genocide?

Quote from: JimBobOzI know, and it's alarming to me, too.

I just don't know why we'd want the company of a guy who openly advocates genocide. But then, I'm the kind of guy who won't talk to guys who beat their wives, either - not after I find out, and have told them they're dogs.

That other people are probably quietly agreeing with him is depressing, but when it comes down to it, if you don't say it or do anything about it, I don't care about it. They have the sense, or the laziness, or the cowardice, to stay quiet - I'm happy with that. So long as they don't say it or do anything about it, I don't care what they think.

I think most of the people arguing that Nox shouldn't be banned are not Ultrasecret Racists that are secretly agreeing with Nox's implicit statements about genocide. And I think its kind of wimpy to resort to that kind of rhetorical tactic.  Its right up there with "if you don't agree with us about suspending civil liberties, then you must secretly want the terrorists to win". Or "if you're against allowing the Police to search without a warrant, then you must have something to hide!"

QuoteEvery one of us has our prejudices. We all have our racism and sexism and so on and so forth. We all have our abrasive moments, we're all occasionally arseholes to people. So a little bit of offence, fair enough, it's just part of the friction of the machinery of society - of a forum - who cares. But you have to draw the line somewhere. And that "somewhere" for me is when we reach the point where the guy's posts would be cheered at stormfront.org.

I'm honestly starting to feel uncomfortable at therpgsite because of this - because no-one speaks out.
"Fuck moderation! Let the community police itself!"
"Okay, then - police him. If he says something offensive, call him on it."
"Well, when he says we should kill all Moslems, that doesn't offend me. Or not enough to make the enormous effort of a single post saying so."

I think this is happening not because people agree, or even because they are apathetic, but because Nox has been dogpiled so many times he has ZERO CREDIBILITY. Everyone knows at this point that he's an enormous shithead, ignorant as all fuck, and a cretin to boot, so they just gloss over anything he writes.

But hey, community policing begins with one. It could also be argued that essentially, Nox isn't getting dogpiled anymore because of his near-autistic ability to keep posting and posting blissfully unconcerned with the fact that everyone hates him.
If you really want to do something about it, you could personally make sure to start the dogpile every single time Nox makes one of his cretinous statements, and remind everyone else of their civic duty to "community police" the site.

QuoteWhich is why I suggested the option of banning him from Off Topic only. If a guy is a dick on your front porch but alright inside the house, drag him off the fucking porch and into your house. If Jim is a cockhead when he drinks, he should stop drinking.

I don't care if he's an arsehole. I care if he's an arsehole who openly advocates genocide.

I have noted my own opinions on this. However, I am willing to reconsider any opinion I hold as Admin here if I get enough feedback from respectable members of this site.
So if you want to try to push for this, I would suggest you go to the Help desk forum and start a poll about whether Nox should be banned, or one asking about whether repeated openly racist statements should be a bannable offence on the site.
Suficient commentaries, sufficiently well-argued, could change my mind about this, and if a vast majority support either of these measures, that would certainly cause me to give a second thought to the whole thing.

RPGPundit

Quote from: droogI'm coming from the opposite angle from you. You don't care what people think as long as they don't say it. I think it's better if they say it and everybody can take their measure.

Shit.. I agree with droog.

RPGPundit

Quote from: JimBobOzInteresting approach, HinterWelt.

I am puzzled as to why molesting children causes offence and people agree with a topic ban, and threatened full ban if the topic ban is broken, but advocating genocide doesn't cause the same offence.

It's okay talk about wanting to kill millions of children, but not to want to molest one of them?

I confess I find this morality confusing.?

And that there is a good argument. It would certainly be a strong argument for giving Nox a topic ban against discussing certain specific topics at least, if not for giving him a ban from Off-topic altogether.

RPGPundit

Quote from: StumpydaveI'd vote for ban the fuckwit.  Not because of his bigotry and other isms but because he does drag his OT threadcrapping into rpg threads.

How often have you seen him wail on Cessna or Koltar or Christmas Ape for their supposed crimes - adding nothing to the topic in question but tainting every thread he "contributes" to with his particular brand of bile.

I used to be against any kind of ban for Nox, his four tirades and how he'd fit them into any topic were entertaining.  But he's gone from that into spouting  shite wherever he goes, it can't be anything but detrimental for this site.

Sure, he'd love to be banned from the site that claims it won't ban people, but I think it's in our best interests to give him what he wants in this instance.

Dave, please point out to me recent occasions (as in, the last month or so) where he's done the above, after I had specifically warned him about it, in particular regarding Koltar, who was one of the specific people I'd warned him to stop shitting on in that way.

If you can show me that he's been threadcrapping RPG threads with off-topic personal attacks, then you're onto something. I hadn't seen any lately, but then I'm on vacation, and reading far fewer threads than what I usually do.

RPGpundit