Quote from: Thanatos02that's really pretty unneeded, chief.

I thought that went without saying when Nox posts?

Quote from: Dan DavenportI do my best to be polite when posting, because I prefer to set a good example. I'm not perfect in that regard, of course.

Sounds good.

Quote from: Dan DavenportI would like to mention that I've been around RPGnet since before it had forums of any sort.

Me, too. (I think, anyway.)

Quote from: Dan DavenportAs much as it gets maligned, the creation of Tangency Open was, at least, a nice safety valve to draw all of the off-topic flameworthy crap away from the actual game discussions.

Yeah, but it still has nothing to with the raison d'etre of the site, discussing RPGs. Some off topic stuff is inevitable, but Tangency quickly became the main attraction. And as it's causing problems for the "main" site...

Seanchai

Quote from: AnemoneI do not subscribe to the idea that RPGNet is the hell-hole of dictatorship some people here like to imagine;

Oh, you don't? Have you tried the tacquitos? Definitely just one-star. Most dictatorships can at least manage two-star tacquitos, if not even a few genuinely good burritos.

Seanchai

Quote from: James McMurrayI thought that went without saying when Nox posts?

But not every post is directly connected to something I said... :hehe:

Quote from: Anemone... but I do think it is increasingly becoming un-fun for me.  To be honest, that makes me sad.

You should hang out here more often. We are all about the fun

Regards,
David R

Quote from: SeanchaiYeah, but it still has nothing to with the raison d'etre of the site, discussing RPGs. Some off topic stuff is inevitable, but Tangency quickly became the main attraction. And as it's causing problems for the "main" site...

Seanchai

Oh, don't get me wrong: I'm no fan of Tangency. But sadly, I don't see any good alternative to it being there -- not because of the traffic it attracts to the site, but because of that "safety valve" function. Take it away, and then what? Have an even harder moderator crackdown when the off-topic stuff inevitably starts backing up in the on-topic forums like raw sewage from a clogged sewer line?

The "main attraction" aspect's unfortunate but unavoidable, in a way, precisely because it does cover "everything else" -- including personal interaction unrelated to gaming. That's allowed it to mushroom as people have formed personal bonds there and drawn in other folks, some of whom have no interest in RPGs at all.

Quote from: Dan DavenportOh, don't get me wrong: I'm no fan of Tangency. But sadly, I don't see any good alternative to it being there -- not because of the traffic it attracts to the site, but because of that "safety valve" function. Take it away, and then what?

'Cept that the most active Tangency posters are Tangency-only. So they wouldn't bring off-topic stuff to roleplaying discussions, they'd just lurk.

The few posters who are active in both forums would, I think, be able to restrain themselves. I really don't see someone talking about Dubya's choking on a pretzel in the middle of some thread about statting orcs in Wushu. In any case, the continued existence of your #rpgnet demonstrates that it's entirely possible to have a place for discussing rpgs without all the flameworthy stuff. Sure, not much actual rpg discussion happens there, but it's not flamey stuff. It's sort of like rpg.net would be if they killed Tangency Open, but kept Other Media, etc.

Tangency Open is the one that brings out all the flamewars, the "emotionally safe environment" nonsense, and so on. Tangency Open isn't an alternative to heavy-handed moderation, it's the cause of the heavy-handed moderation. The "group attack" rules didn't come from people bashing Palladium.

Quote from: JimBobOz'Cept that the most active Tangency posters are Tangency-only. So they wouldn't bring off-topic stuff to roleplaying discussions, they'd just lurk.

The few posters who are active in both forums would, I think, be able to restrain themselves. I really don't see someone talking about Dubya's choking on a pretzel in the middle of some thread about statting orcs in Wushu. In any case, the continued existence of your #rpgnet demonstrates that it's entirely possible to have a place for discussing rpgs without all the flameworthy stuff. Sure, not much actual rpg discussion happens there, but it's not flamey stuff. It's sort of like rpg.net would be if they killed Tangency Open, but kept Other Media, etc.

Tangency Open is the one that brings out all the flamewars, the "emotionally safe environment" nonsense, and so on. Tangency Open isn't an alternative to heavy-handed moderation, it's the cause of the heavy-handed moderation. The "group attack" rules didn't come from people bashing Palladium.

I have to disagree with you, JB. People starting political fights in the middle of roleplaying talk was exactly what happened pre-Tangency.

And as for #rpgnet: that works because when I took over the channel, I (along with the ops) set the new rules and clamped down hard, not because people chose to restrain themselves. The flamey stuff doesn't happen because we don't allow it to start in the first place.

Which isn't to say that the posters there struggle under the yoke of oppression.  The ones who are there like the atmosphere we've managed to create. The ones who want to argue politics and/or religion while cussing a blue streak are gone.

(Oh, and for the record: quite a bit of RPG-related discussion's been going on in there lately. )

Quote from: Dan DavenportI have to disagree with you, JB. People starting political fights in the middle of roleplaying talk was exactly what happened pre-Tangency.

With some concerted effort, we could probably work this temporal conundrum out, but I think this is something a chicken-or-the-egg scenario.  To my recollection, Tangency was created late 2000 or early 2001.  The real bitter social/political brushwars flared up around 2003 and took place mostly on Tangency.  Now, I'm willing to entertain the notion that Tangency merely concentrated off-topic political posts (and posters), but the fact remains that the concentration heightened the fervor.

!i!

Quote from: Dan DavenportThe ones who want to argue politics and/or religion while cussing a blue streak are gone.

I think some of them probably migrated here.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWith some concerted effort, we could probably work this temporal conundrum out, but I think this is something a chicken-or-the-egg scenario.  To my recollection, Tangency was created late 2000 or early 2001.  The real bitter social/political brushwars flared up around 2003 and took place mostly on Tangency.  Now, I'm willing to entertain the notion that Tangency merely concentrated off-topic political posts (and posters), but the fact remains that the concentration heightened the fervor.

!i!

I certainly wouldn't argue any of that with you. I'm just suggesting that the concentration you describe is the unfortunate byproduct of siphoning off the off-topic flamewars from the on-topic forum.

Quote from: James McMurrayI think some of them probably migrated here.

From RPGnet, certainly. From #rpgnet, I dunno... a forum seems like an odd substitute for a chatroom.

Re: Me as mod.

Quote from: SeanchaiI could have sworn I've been both of them make a snarky comment or two in red.

Yup, you did.  It's so easy to get nasty when you've got all the fictional power in your puny universe.

In my defense, I quit not long after.

Quote from: Dan DavenportI certainly wouldn't argue any of that with you. I'm just suggesting that the concentration you describe is the unfortunate byproduct of siphoning off the off-topic flamewars from the on-topic forum.

Now, the fortunate byproduct could be that, with all of the troublemakers concentrated in one place, it'd be easier to nuke them all with one strike.  It's the only way to be sure.

!i!

Quote from: Levi KornelsenIn my defense, I quit not long after.

It's a pretty damn good defense.

Seanchai