Quote from: SettembriniI´m really starting to sense some agendas here. People seem to be trying to change theRPGsite, to better match their vision. I´ll be vigilant. Don´t try anything, don´t think us Desert Nomads can be fooled easily, even if the MASTER is away on vacation.

You know, you're right.

I for one dream of uniting the tribes in a great hammer of flesh, horse, and steel, then conquering the fertile lands around the river and subjugating the soft folk of the cities.



Seriously, Sett, desert nomads? You're making less sense than usual.

Don´t you know the mysterious MASTER of the Desert Nomads?

Shame on you, unworthy one!

Sett:  I agree that some people (though not all) have drifted into some wierd territory.  Still, I don't think they set out for that destination.  I think the sequence went pretty much like this:

• JimBob:  Y'know, sometimes Mods are obnoxious idiots, and deserve to be taunted mercilessly just like anyone else.  Like when Pundit said that stupid thing.
• Pundt:  * Reiterates the stupid thing. *
• Folks (including me):  Pundit is being an obnoxious idiot, let's taunt him mercilessly for it.
• Pundit:  I'm not being an idiot, but even if I were, why would that be a problem for the site and for me as a moderator?
  
• Some folks (including me):  Ain't about being a problem for the site.  Idiots get pummelled.  That's how this site works.  You're no exception.
  
• Other folks:  Well, it would be a problem for the site because of X, Y, Z.
• Sett:  Hey, why are we talking about this in terms of what it does to the site?  There's some grand conspiracy to change the vision of the site!

Now I get that #4 (from Pundit) was an attempt to keep things on the original topic ... but it also had the effect (intentionally or otherwise) of trolling people into attacking him as a Mod (where, as you point out, there's a pretty solid defense of "Fuck off, the Mods decide how to Mod") rather than attacking him as an idiot poster where, frankly, he's clearly and totally cruising for some mob justice.

Quote from: JimBobOzAnd so, RedFox, now you get what I was saying earlier.

I mentioned Curt's sexuality for the same reason I mentioned RPGPundit's - it's an issue because they made it an issue. I expect a person's sexuality to be a fundamental part of their identity; I do not expect it to be a relevant part of their online persona, not if they're in an rpg forum, anyway.

Why do we mention that Curt is gay? Why do we mention that RPGPundit prefers schtupping prostitutes to genuine relationships? Because they told us, and made a big deal about it. They bring it up when it's completely irrelevant. They have a Message to send to us.

Now, if Curt said, "there are not enough gay heroes in rpg books," or if RPGPundit said, "why aren't there any rules for making money from prostitution? There should be a Hooker Prestige Class!" and if we said, "why do you care?" well then it might be relevant. But in general, it's not. But if someone babbles on about something which is irrelevant, people will remember them for it, and crack jokes about it.

That doesn't mean we hate gays or prostitutes.

And yes, it is true that RPGPundit doesn't take all this to heart and ban us for mocking him. But it is also true that really we don't want to know what he does with his willy. Whether it goes in a woman, a man, an accountant, or garbage collector, or hairdresser, or prostitute, or can of dog food - we don't care. We don't want to know. But if he insists on telling us anyway, you can be sure that we'll mock him for it. That doesn't make us bigots, that just makes us people who really would rather talk about rpgs, and think that a bit of mockery will put him off talking about his willy, and then we can get back to our dice and cheetos.

Curt is wrong in thinking that people mock him because he's gay. People mock him because nobody wants to hear what some pudgy-bellied pasty-skinned geek does with their genitals.

I don't see as one (Pundit's declarations) directly relate to another (Curt's reactions to bigoted comments).

But I stand by my last post:  CHECK, PLEASE!

Quote from: ImperatorDude, you're following the trail of the Pundit into Paranoidland.

I dunno, I reckon those two swap roles as trailblazers. I can picture them, carrying on up the jungle!

Quote from: JamesV

HERE'S WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT DR ROTWANG!:
      
"Listen, my agent already told you – 'No Xanadu 2'.  And anyway, you do not 'look just like Michael Beck'.  Please, just stop calling."  --Olivia Netwon-John

"What a stupid name.  I mean, did his parents have no shame?  Naming your kid 'Doctor', that's kind of pretentious, isn't it?"--Frank Langella

"Dr Rotwang! Is the coolest role-model since The Fonz.  That's all I'm saying for fifty measly bucks." -- Scott Baio

"Make no mistake, brothers and sisters, that Doc Rotwang! Is The Debbil his-self!  Oh, when you see that yeller Lam-Borg-Eenie a-comin' up the road, why, you'd best lock up your women-folk and hide all your tacos, 'cause The Debbil is – well, okay, just the tacos I guess.  He's married." -- Pope Benedict XVI

"He really needs to track his blood pressure better." -- Dr Rotwang!'s doctor

"Dr Rotwang!  Apply directly to the forehead.  Dr Rotwang!  Apply directly to the forehead.  Dr Rotwang!  Apply directly to the forehead.  Dr Rotwang!  Apply directly to the forehead." -- Miralus Healthcare

"Rotwang! Butanga!  Chololo nobunga, muwumbo Tarzan!"  -- Dr Joyce Brothers

Seriously, guys, I'm honored by the opinion of me that you have, and I do avoid these threads for a reason.

Except when, you know, I think of a joke.

Quote from: SettembriniDavidR: If you change theRPGsite to make it more appealing to the weak of stomach and the weak of mind, then theRPGSite will have lost it´s soul and purpose.

I would ask you to show me where I suggest appealing more to the weak of stomach & weak of mind, btw what the fuck does weak of stomach & mind mean anyway (women? girlie men? people who play forge games?)...no wait, don't bother explaining..., because this would mean I'm assuming that you are operating in a manner other than wacky...

QuoteDon´t try anything, don´t think us Desert Nomads can be fooled easily, even if the MASTER is away on vacation.

Yes but the Crow flies east whereas the Moutain Lion stalks west, all the while the Owl looks north watching the Snake slither south...think about it.

Regards,
David R

Tony, as usual you miss the point.

It's not that there's "mob justice".

The point is: It's that even "mob justice" doesn't get the final say. The mob itself can easily be turned into a target.

There is no final say. There is no established groupthink to conform to.

In other words, I'm with Sett.

Quote from: TonyLBSett:  I agree that some people (though not all) have drifted into some wierd territory.  Still, I don't think they set out for that destination.  I think the sequence went pretty much like this:

• JimBob:  Y'know, sometimes Mods are obnoxious idiots, and deserve to be taunted mercilessly just like anyone else.  Like when Pundit said that stupid thing.
• Pundt:  * Reiterates the stupid thing. *
• Folks (including me):  Pundit is being an obnoxious idiot, let's taunt him mercilessly for it.
• Pundit:  I'm not being an idiot, but even if I were, why would that be a problem for the site and for me as a moderator?
  
• Some folks (including me):  Ain't about being a problem for the site.  Idiots get pummelled.  That's how this site works.  You're no exception.
  
• Other folks:  Well, it would be a problem for the site because of X, Y, Z.
• Sett:  Hey, why are we talking about this in terms of what it does to the site?  There's some grand conspiracy to change the vision of the site!

Now I get that #4 (from Pundit) was an attempt to keep things on the original topic ... but it also had the effect (intentionally or otherwise) of trolling people into attacking him as a Mod (where, as you point out, there's a pretty solid defense of "Fuck off, the Mods decide how to Mod") rather than attacking him as an idiot poster where, frankly, he's clearly and totally cruising for some mob justice.

I'll say this, there's nothng quite like an RPGsite trainwreck discussion. It takes netpalaver to a whole new level.

*netpalaver is a new word invented by me and covered under an distribution with attribution license.

Quote from: SettembriniBe aware that genetically speaking this site is an amalgam of RPGNet & SJGames disenfranchised and Punditheads, growing on the stable rock of the no-holds-barred Nutkinland-ENWorld-Circus Maximus- Connection.

Man, it's nice to see someone mention Nutkinland around here without immediately turning his or her head and spitting afterwards.

Man, I take a week off of reading the forum to get married and I almost miss all the fun...

Although I am loathe to add any more post count to a (IMO) pointless bitch session about another forum, it has wandered into some territory that I would like to comment on.

As I have mentioned before, freedom of speech is an important personal value to me, but beyond that I think that it is an important practical method for producing the kinds of discussions that are interesting.  Although I am not ready to jump on the Settembrini band wagon just yet, I would point out that a large and diverse population of posters *in itself* is not how I would define success for theRPGsite.  I would define success by the interesting conversations that take place here.  A large and diverse base of posters would certainly help create those interesting conversations, but I think that setting out to artificially create an "emotionally safe environment" will only lead to sterility.  One has only to look at what has happened to RPG.net to see this process in action.  Yes they are large, and yes they are diverse, but the conversation is better here IMO.

Look, if this site is to succeed based on its current charter *we* have to step up and make it happen.  *We* have to call people on their bullshit.  *We* should be more civil to one another and avoid creating a toxic environment for whatever group you care to name.  In the end, it is what *we* do, not who the Pundit is, that will define this site.  If some whackjobs on the Internet care to characterize this site based on his failings, I don't think that we could do anything to stop them.  Just as there are people here who can't seem to let RPG.net history go.

The best revenge is to prove them wrong.  This site is more than its owner.  This site is more than a single poster.  This site is us, and we bear the responsibility for what it is or what it isn't.


TGA

Quote from: Bartholomew FairMan, it's nice to see someone mention Nutkinland around here without immediately turning his or her head and spitting afterwards.

For what it is worth, I really enjoyed Nutkinland...  :cool:

And as Sett points out, the Wild West feel of Nutkinland is part of this place's DNA, for better or for worse.


TGA

Quote from: Bartholomew FairMan, it's nice to see someone mention Nutkinland around here without immediately turning his or her head and spitting afterwards.

You know we really need a "turn your head and spit" emoticon :haw:

Wow, this thread has gone in all kinds of unexpected directions.

Bartholomew Fair: NKL was a fun place, but so dominated by high-posting and very well entrenched cliques that it turned into a kind of place where you just couldn't join discussions without familiarising yourself with years worth of drama and insider backstabbing. Sort of like Tangency without the PC slant and the tyrannical moderation.

With regards to the conspiracies and agendas.

This is the RPGsite yeah?  Where we endeavour (some more than others) to talk about rpgs.

So if an rpg is a "forge" rpg or a "swine" rpg etc.  Then its still - at its heart - an rpg.  So how can any conspiracy or agenda derail this sites purpose from discussing rpgs?

Sure, certain posters may not like them/shill them like their lives depended on the sales but if they act like cunts then we smack 'em down.  

I just don't see the threat that others do.

(Unless its a call to make the rpgsite an "emotionally safe environment" a la Tangency - then I would be glued to the screen just to watch the fallout).