Quote from: RedFoxI want my gun purely for work (security).

Not a hardware recommendation, but you might look into the Defensive Pistol course at Gunsite.  Their instruction has gotten rave reviews pretty much everywhere (including Outside magazine, of all places.)  They even rent out pistols for those of us without one.

(Shit, I kinda wanna do this myself. )

It runs a week and looks like it'll cost a couple grand, but if it translates into better job postings...

(The furries are arming themselves!  Flee!  Flee!)

Quote from: JimBobOzSo far all he's excluded by that definition is water pistols. He has to tell us what he wants to be able to take down, and at what range.

Maybe it was just because Joe was using the secret gun nut moon language, but it was pretty clear to me, at least, what kind of recommendations he was looking for.  

Quote from: JimBobOzWell, I hate to be unoriginal, but I would nominate the good old Browning (9mm) High Power. It's just shy of eight inches long, a couple of pounds loaded, so it's a bit chunky but should be fine with a decent holster. It's reliable, fairly easy to maintain, and has been a military weaon for yonks so you'll easily be able to find one, and find a decent one cheap at that. And of course because it's a common one, there'll be a lot of knowledge and useful advice for you down at your gun club on maintaining and optimising it.

I think that the Browning is a *very* fine choice for a pistol, for all of the reasons that you outlined.  However, depending on how important the issue of concealment is to Joe's purchasing plans, the Browning may be a bit bulky.    

Toting around a gun all day in a concealment holster can be actually quite uncomfortable, especially if the gun is largish and the holster is not appropriate for your body type.  Spending a bit of time and money in getting a quality holster is an excellent investment in my opinion.  There is also issues such as climate to be considered.  For example, in warm weather states like Texas using a shoulder holster is not a practical option most times of the year, unless you like to suffer and want to look like a bank executive or G-man at all times.  The Browning may be OK in a shoulder holster, but on balance I would recommend a smaller gun in most situations requiring concealment.

There are trade offs, of course.  To get a truly slim and small gun you are looking at a .380, which I would never personally bet my life with in a self defense situation, or a 9mm or .40 S&W with a single stack magazine.  You are trading comfort and concealment for ammo capacity.  That is why I recommended the Kahr pistols to Joe.  They are surprisingly small, very well-made, and have worked out well for me.  I had also considered buying one of the "baby Glocks", the Glock 26 (9mm) or Glock 27 (.40 S&W), but they have a double stack mag and were too bulky for me.  They also didn't feel right as they have a stubby grip that leaves the pinky finger hanging free.  As always, YMMV.


TGA

Quote from: WerekoalaMy FN-FAL needs a workout, but don't know if I can find a range with ENOUGH range to give it a good going-over.

God, I love that gun. Once it warms up out here I'm going. I know a couple of spots...

You lucky bastard!  The FN-FAL is one of my favorite guns of all time, and is currently the only thing left on my gun nut Christmas list.  

I imagine that you can find a few places in Utah with some long views and nothing for miles that could give that FAL a good workout.  Same in Texas.  i have a friend with a ranch and we used to go out there all the time for weekend shoots.

TGA

Quote from: JimBobOzSurely with an IWB rig everything bigger than some itty-bitty 22 will be a pain?

Not really.  There are some excellent compact and slim 9mm pistols now that there are a number of states in the US with concealed carry laws.  Over the last decade or so gun manufacturers have responded to this increasing demand for small, slim pistols and there are a number choices available now.  The best thing for the prospective gun buyer to do is to go out and try a few.

Quote from: JimBobOzI think everyone will recommend the Glock 17 - 9x19mm...It's more finely-machined than usual, so it'll give you good performance and accuracy, but will require some intense cleaning to keep it going smooth - and that cleaning will wear down the bearings and action, so after a couple of thousand rounds your accuracy and reliability will drop a bit. This is the one which is expensive, high-maintenance but high-performance for a few years. My friend says, "this is a good one, so long as some other bugger cleans it for you."

That has not been my experience with the Glock at all.  It is actually quite easy to clean and maintain for an automatic pistol.  It is certainly much simpler to disassemble and clean than older designs like the Colt .45 Government Model or the Browning.  I have had mine for more than a decade and there has been no degradation of accuracy or reliability.


TGA

Quote from: RedFoxIf it makes a difference, I want my gun purely for work (security).  If I get my carry license, I'll be eligible for better postings and better pay.

So I need a weapon I can carry around all day long, learn to shoot with, and make qualifying shoots with.  And it has to be (I believe) .45 or larger, so I can't get a .22 peashooter or anything.

So, easy to shoot, reliable, easy to maintain, and won't throw my hip out of whack are my basic requirements.  ^_^

.45 or larger?? Handguns don't get much bigger than that, and most states require security guards to carry .38s or 9mms.

EDIT: I can't find anyplace where it says that CA only allows certain calibers, just that you have to carry the same caliber you qualified with. Interesting.

Quote from: fonkaygarryKilling people who want to hurt him.  Same thing that all handguns are made for.

Now now, we all know that law-abiding citizens don't try to kill anyone.  He wants to stop people who want to hurt him.

Quote from: Dominus Noxif you can afford it, S&W makes a line of titalium revolvers. SWEEEEEEEEEET!

They make scandium revolvers that are even sweeter, and lighter.  They run about $800-900 around here though, which is more than I'm allowed to spend.

Quote from: The Good AssyrianYou lucky bastard!  The FN-FAL is one of my favorite guns of all time, and is currently the only thing left on my gun nut Christmas list.  

I imagine that you can find a few places in Utah with some long views and nothing for miles that could give that FAL a good workout.  Same in Texas.  i have a friend with a ranch and we used to go out there all the time for weekend shoots.

Yes indeed - I fell in love with that gun in the 80's. It just LOOKS like it means business. I finally convinced my (thankfully now ex-) wife to let me buy it a few years back. Its just a big ol' slab of sexy steel with a 9x scope on it. Mmmmm.....

You know JimBob, after sleeping on it I realize your recommendation for a Browning High Power just might be the ticket!  It's a bit too heavy to carry, but I can't carry in Illinois, so it will be a range gun for at least another two years.  

In two years I can buy a new "carry" gun if I get to a sane state (all you non-US people may now laugh) I'll pick up something smaller.  I've fired the Browning a lot more than the XD9 or any other gun mentioned here, so I have a better idea of what it does.

The jury is still out on my final decision, as I like to discuss guns with gamers, we're all a LOT more imaginitive thangun people.

Cool, Joe!  Let us know how it turns out!


TGA

Quote from: joewolzYou know JimBob, after sleeping on it I realize your recommendation for a Browning High Power just might be the ticket!  It's a bit too heavy to carry, but I can't carry in Illinois, so it will be a range gun for at least another two years.

Haven't read all the above, but I'll chime in as well.

Go with the High Power, nice sweet single action trigger, good mag capacity, points wonderfully. And it's a classic. Can be had in either 9mm or .40 S&W. Perfect for a range gun, not back for a bedside gun (or even a carry gun in cold weather) although Like revolvers better on that score.

Two points against:

1. If you shoot revolvers double action, you may want a double action semi-auto as well.

2. The mag safety is a pain. You may need a good gunsmith to give the pistol an once over to make it smooth.

Quote from: joewolzYou know JimBob, after sleeping on it I realize your recommendation for a Browning High Power just might be the ticket!  It's a bit too heavy to carry, but I can't carry in Illinois, so it will be a range gun for at least another two years.  

Oh right, I'd forgotten that. But the maze of US firearms laws is simply too much for me, in my nice simple country of only six states and two territories

Quote from: joewolzThe jury is still out on my final decision, as I like to discuss guns with gamers, we're all a LOT more imaginitive thangun people.

Now that I think on it, as gamers we have failed you. Real gamers would have said you should buy yourself twin 50 cal Desert Eagles.

Quote from: JimBobOzNow that I think on it, as gamers we have failed you. Real gamers would have said you should buy yourself twin 50 cal Desert Eagles.

Well to be fair, Jong *did* try...  

Quote from: JongWKYou can never go wrong with a BFG-9000!

Quote from: One Horse TownAs an Englishman, i still have to give a double-take when i see threads like this.

Even as an American I do.  Raised among sport hunters with shotguns in the house, too.

!i!

I think it's freaky shit, too. But as I said earlier, that would be another thread. These days I am trying to stick to the topic at hand, it makes discussuions go more smoothly. Start a new thread on "crazy Americans and their guns" and I'll be right in it

Quote from: The Good AssyrianYou lucky bastard!  The FN-FAL is one of my favorite guns of all time, and is currently the only thing left on my gun nut Christmas list.  

I imagine that you can find a few places in Utah with some long views and nothing for miles that could give that FAL a good workout.  Same in Texas.  i have a friend with a ranch and we used to go out there all the time for weekend shoots.

TGA

By Sargon's Imperial Balls, TGA... you know you can borrow mine any time you want.



It's not as "old-fashioned OEM" as I know your tastes run, but it's FAL enough. Jeebus knows I'm not shooting it nearly enough. Oh, and to satisfy the curiosity of the subjects of Her Majesty the Queen... I have it for when the zombies come.