Quote from: WerekoalaI haven't been shooting in going on 3 years. I have a beauty of a Colt Python that needs to see some action, and my .45 is getting lonely. Not as fun going by yourself, and I don't know any shooters out here in Utah. Guess I need to get off my ass and go find some shooting buddies.

Yeah, its been a while for me, too.  I still haven't had a chance to fire the .45-.70 converted Lee Enfield carbine I got a while ago for dealing with polar bears (it's a long story).  My shoulder isn't looking forward to that experience!  

Maybe this weekend I will get some ammo and head out to the range.


TGA

joewolz has not told what he wants the thing for, so we can't answer him yet.

A firearm is a tool, and tools are chosen because they're suitable for some job. If someone says he wants to choose a knife, then I give a different answer whether he wants to spread jam on his bread or skin a deer or carve a bedpost.

What do you want to do with the thing, joewolz?

Quote from: JimBobOzjoewolz has not told what he wants the thing for, so we can't answer him yet.

I think that he already has...

Quote from: joewolzReally, I'm looking for a slim to compact 9mm that would be reasonably accurate and reasonable priced.  A secondary consideration (in case I move to a state where this is legal) would be comfortable to carry.

I think that he has the right idea, which is ask a bunch of random gun nuts on the Internet and then go out and see which one he likes by taking them out and shooting them.  Sounds like a plan to me.  


TGA

Quote from: The Good AssyrianI think that he has the right idea, which is ask a bunch of random gun nuts on the Internet and then go out and see which one he likes by taking them out and shooting them.  Sounds like a plan to me.  


TGA

Really, it's the only way to go about it...

if you can afford it, S&W makes a line of titalium revolvers. SWEEEEEEEEEET!

Another factor to consider is how easy it is to add an accessory, like a laser sight, to one.

Quote from: The Good AssyrianYeah, its been a while for me, too.  I still haven't had a chance to fire the .45-.70 converted Lee Enfield carbine I got a while ago for dealing with polar bears (it's a long story).  My shoulder isn't looking forward to that experience!  

Maybe this weekend I will get some ammo and head out to the range.

My FN-FAL needs a workout, but don't know if I can find a range with ENOUGH range to give it a good going-over.

God, I love that gun. Once it warms up out here I'm going. I know a couple of spots...

No, he hasn't told us, really.

Quote from: joewolzReally, I'm looking for a slim to compact 9mm that would be reasonably accurate and reasonable priced. A secondary consideration (in case I move to a state where this is legal) would be comfortable to carry.

So far all he's excluded by that definition is water pistols. He has to tell us what he wants to be able to take down, and at what range.

You can never go wrong with a BFG-9000!




What?

Quote from: JimBobOzNo, he hasn't told us, really.

So far all he's excluded by that definition is water pistols. He has to tell us what he wants to be able to take down, and at what range.

Garry actually had it right, minus Mr. Analytical's joke...which I'll address in a moment.

I'd like a smaller weapon for personal defense, and for putting holes in paper.  Mostly, I want it for the latter.  The only pistol I currently own is a S&W .357 revolver, and that's really not adequate for concealed carry for when I'm in a state that allows it.  Since I can only carry in a state that has reciprocity with Indiana, and I don't travel out-of-state much currently, it has't been an issue.  But I'm almost done with my MA and my finacee and I are considering a move out of state.  

If said state allows concealed carry, I'd like to have something comfortable to carry around, that's reasonably accurate, and won't kill me on ammo cost when I go to the range and shoot it.  I assume that I will never do any shooting outside the range, so considerations for that are more important than the concealability issue.  

Plus, I want a decent 9mm because I collect guns.  I have far more long arms than pistols, owning only one pistol currently, and I like how 9s operate on the range.

To address Mr. Analytical, I take care not to be wild with my guns.  As JimBob said, their tools, just like cars are tools.  If you're into cars, and want a hotrod, it can kill people just as dead as any gun if you're stupid with it.  I do not have any loaded guns in my house when I'm not home, nor would I have one when I was home if my finacee did not know what to do with it, either, she's been through the same safety and shooting courses I have...they make for interesting dates.

Quote from: Dominus Noxif you can afford it, S&W makes a line of titalium revolvers. SWEEEEEEEEEET!

Another factor to consider is how easy it is to add an accessory, like a laser sight, to one.

The titanium revolvers I've fired were S&W, I didn't like them in any caliber bigger than .38 Special.  Firing such a light weapon with a hot cartridge is begging for sore wrists!

I'm also not a fan of laser sights, I much prefer the glowing cat's eye sights.

Well, I hate to be unoriginal, but I would nominate the good old Browning (9mm) High Power. It's just shy of eight inches long, a couple of pounds loaded, so it's a bit chunky but should be fine with a decent holster. It's reliable, fairly easy to maintain, and has been a military weaon for yonks so you'll easily be able to find one, and find a decent one cheap at that. And of course because it's a common one, there'll be a lot of knowledge and useful advice for you down at your gun club on maintaining and optimising it.

The trigger pull is a bit of a bitch because of the safety features on it, but since more Americans are killed by accidental discharge of firearms than in self-defence (800 vs 600 each year), I consider that a feature not a bug.

For it you can get full metal-jacketed rounds at about US$9 for a 50-round box, you can use those for your target practice. For actual self-defence you can have the jacketed hollowpoints at about US$28 a box of 50, assuming those rounds are legal to load up in your concealed weapon where you are. A single hit anywhere on the body will pretty reliably take someone down with one of those, and anywhere on his double-t (tit to tit, eye to eye, and line from between the eyes to his groin) will certainly take him down. A decent vest will stop those rounds, but in general the only ones wearing vests are law enforcement and military, and if you're planning on dealing with them then I have no advice for you.

The magazine holds 13 rounds, and you can also put one up the spout, too, for 14 in all. If that's not enough for you, then either you need more time at the range practicing, or else you're firing for show to scare them off like most people do, and then it doesn't matter what kind of weapon you have, they're all equally good for show In any second-hand one, I would only put 10 rounds, since the magazine springs become overloaded and work-hardened after some years.

I understand S&W do a .40 version, but I've never used it and in any case don't see why you'd need to carry a cannon.

I have my own opinions on the ethics and utility of firearms, but they were not questions raised by joewolz in his original post, so to bring up the old gun control arguments here would be a threadjack. Start a new thread.

I have considered the Browning, JimBob.  My uncle has one and I've shot it quite a bit.  If I was buying something JUST for the range, I'd most likely follow your advice.  I really enjoy shooting the BHP.  I particularly like my uncle's Browning, because it has a tight twist in the rifling that makes it kick noticibly to the left.  I don't know if all of them do that, since I've only shot the one.

I would worry that the weight would be burdensome if I carried it in a IWB rig...now for winter time, when I can wear a shoulder holster, that's a different story!

If it makes a difference, I want my gun purely for work (security).  If I get my carry license, I'll be eligible for better postings and better pay.

So I need a weapon I can carry around all day long, learn to shoot with, and make qualifying shoots with.  And it has to be (I believe) .45 or larger, so I can't get a .22 peashooter or anything.

So, easy to shoot, reliable, easy to maintain, and won't throw my hip out of whack are my basic requirements.  ^_^

Quote from: joewolzI particularly like my uncle's Browning, because it has a tight twist in the rifling that makes it kick noticibly to the left.  I don't know if all of them do that, since I've only shot the one.

I've fired probably twenty or so of the things - part of instructing as a Corporal - and most do have that leftwards kick, yes. Contrasts a bit with the usual kick of high and to the right.

Quote from: joewolzI would worry that the weight would be burdensome if I carried it in a IWB rig...now for winter time, when I can wear a shoulder holster, that's a different story!

Surely with an IWB rig everything bigger than some itty-bitty 22 will be a pain? I wouldn't know, the laws don't allow carrying firearms in Australia, and in the Army you bear them openly, usually on your hip like some kind of cowboy

I just talked to a person I know who works in private security and favours the Browning HP 9mm, and their recommendation is for some IWB holster called a "versa max 2". I would not have a clue what that is or is like, but this person swears by it, saying that it was very comfortable, and offered excellent concealment.

For a smaller firearm, the only worthwhile ones in 9mm which come to my mind and that of my friend are two,

The Kell-Tech P-11 (not sure of the spelling). I only fired this one afternoon a few years back, but from memory and my friend's description it's a touch under 6" long, 4" high and about 1" wide, weighing a bit under 600 grammes (er... 21 oz) loaded. There's a 10 round mag on the thing. It's a bit of a plastic fantastic - but has to be for that weight. No safety, as it's a double-action with a significant trigger-pull. I think it had one of those sights with the two-lumos at back, and one at front. Accuracy is a bit crap, I couldn't do better than a 6" group at 20 yards, though I am a poor shot overall with pistols. Kicked high and right. I'd say it's suitable for self-defence in most situations you're likely to need it - close-range, against unarmoured targets. In terms of longevity, I don't think it'll be one you pass on to your grandkids, you'd probably just biff it and replace it after putting a couple of thousand rounds through it. So this is the one which is cheap and effective for a few years.

I think everyone will recommend the Glock 17 - 9x19mm. This is pretty big at about 7 1/2" long, but is a bit lighter than the Browning HP at 900grammes/32oz. It has a lighter trigger-pull than the Browning HP. It has a shitload of rounds in the mag, 17. It has quite a kick, I found, with the usual high and to the right. It's more finely-machined than usual, so it'll give you good performance and accuracy, but will require some intense cleaning to keep it going smooth - and that cleaning will wear down the bearings and action, so after a couple of thousand rounds your accuracy and reliability will drop a bit. This is the one which is expensive, high-maintenance but high-performance for a few years. My friend says, "this is a good one, so long as some other bugger cleans it for you."

Your Browning HP won't be as cheap as the P-11, or as accurate and reliable as the Glock 17, but it'll have decent accuracy and reliability for years and years and years... I'm a "happy middle ground" kind of guy in most respects.

All I can really add to this conversation, is that my landlord who works for immigration, range instructor, and ex-marine is not a real big fan of the latest Glocks.  Like JimBobOz has said this is more a matter of what the weapon is being used for and comfort and familiarity to the individual user.  My landlord is recommending for the lowest common denominator and despite my handle I have very little experience with handguns.  You should be able to try out a number of different models and weigh the variables of effectiveness vs. ammunition cost and find the right weapon for you personally.  As a collector you must already have a wealth of information from people with similar interests locally.  I'd have to weigh information from outside sources with those people personally and see if I could test the weapon before purchase.  Hope you find something that suits your need.