TheRPGSite

Articles written by some dude who seems to be like the "RPGPundit" of the comic book world.

He discusses how the recent D&D comic book series by IDW, has been completely botched up from the start.


- "The Sad Tale of a Comic Book Publisher's Failed Product Launch (http://www.matnastos.net/2010/12/the-sad-tale-of-a-comic-book-publishers-failed-product-launch/)"

- "How to keep IDW Publishing from losing their shirt on the Forgotten Realms, Part 1: Building a Foundation for a Successful Comic Book Product Launch (http://www.matnastos.net/2010/12/how-to-keep-idw-publishing-from-losing-their-shirt-on-the-forgotten-realms-part-1-building-a-foundation-for-a-successful-comic-book-product-launch-2/)"

- "How to keep IDW from losing their shirt on the Forgotten Realms, Part 2: Connecting with your audience (http://www.matnastos.net/2010/12/how-to-keep-idw-from-losing-their-shirt-on-the-forgotten-realms-part-2-connecting-with-your-audience/)"

- "The Failure of Licensed Comic Publishers (http://www.matnastos.net/2010/10/the-failure-of-licensed-comic-publishers/)"

Estimates of the number copies sold of the IDW D&D comic, deduced from Diamond's (http://www.diamondcomics.com/public/) statistics.


D&D issue #0 - 23,657 (86th best selling in August 2010)

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2010/2010-08.html

D&D issue #1 - 15,462 (118th best selling in November 2010)

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2010/2010-11.html

D&D issue #2 - 11,623 (159th best selling in December 2010)

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2010/2010-12.html


(In contrast, the top selling comic titles each month are estimated to be selling around 90,000 copies or higher every month).


In a top 1000 list of comics sold in 2010, D&D issue #0 was the 962th place.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30650

Right.

The Marvel and DC title are usually that high.

I'd be shocked if anything shy of Transformers or GI Joe remotely approaches Marvel or DC's numbers.

Oh, sorry, I had no idea True Blood sold as well as it did.

In other words, D&D comics are totally "small fish".

Dear lord.  WotC couldn't carry the ball if it had a handle, their outsourced S/W developers apparently can't code "Hello, World.", the computer game front is moribund, they've split the 4th ed audience, they couldn't put together the equivalent of Facebook for D&D players, and now this.

Is D&D cursed?  Or is WotC?

Maybe...it may just be the company, and their market presence.

DC may have been able to automatically move 40,000 more units for instance (maybe).

Quote from: thedungeondelver;437407Dear lord.  WotC couldn't carry the ball if it had a handle, their outsourced S/W developers apparently can't code "Hello, World.", the computer game front is moribund, they've split the 4th ed audience, they couldn't put together the equivalent of Facebook for D&D players, and now this.

Is D&D cursed?  Or is WotC?

The D&D movies must be cursed.  :banghead:

Quote from: ggroy;437411The D&D movies must be cursed.  :banghead:

I dunno, Wrath of the Dragon God was pretty good for a "B" movie.

Quote from: jeff37923;437413I dunno, Wrath of the Dragon God was pretty good for a "B" movie.

Yeah, it was at least a pretty noticeably step-up from the first one.

The original D&D comic series (AD&D, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Spelljammer) published by DC Comics, were abruptly canceled back in late 1991.

(Scroll down to the TSRETALIATION section).
http://www.comicbookresources.com:8080/?page=article&id=14605

Some DC and TSR insiders from the early 1990's mentioned there was a huge falling out between TSR and DC which, led to the abrupt cancellation of all TSR comic series published by DC.

Allegedly TSR attempted to start their own comic series independently of DC, which made DC very angry.

(Scroll down to the HERE BE DRAGONS section).
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=14600

TSR with a poor business decision? SHOCKING.

Wonder how many issues this IDW D&D comic series will last.

One can say that it will probably be immediately axed, if the title doesn't sell enough copies to cover the costs and WotC licensing fees.

The sad part is, I've heard it's pretty good. (It's written by John Rogers, who is an avowed geek that worked on the Manual of the Planes, and is the creator of Leverage, which is kinda great).

More immediately, the number of copies per month sold (23,657) of D&D issue #0, is now cut in half (11,623) by the time D&D issue #2 is released.

No idea how large the monthly WotC licensing fee is.

Let's examine how much IDW is actually making each month from the D&D comic.

Allegedly publishers sell new issues to Diamond, for around an average of 40% of the cover price.

http://www.icaruscomics.com/wp_web/?p=2354


For D&D issue #0, the cover price was $1.  So IDW sells it to Diamond for $0.40 per copy.  If the 23,657 copies sold figure for D&D issue #0 is reliable, then IDW made a total revenue of $0.40*(23,657) =  $9462.80

For D&D issue #1, the cover price was $3.99.  So IDW sells it to Diamond for $1.596 per copy.  If the 15,462 copies sold figure for D&D issue #1 is reliable, then IDW made a total revenue of $1.596*(15,462) =  $24,677.35

For D&D issue #2, the cover price was $3.99.  So IDW sells it to Diamond for $1.596 per copy.  If the 11,623 copies sold figure for D&D issue #2 is reliable, then IDW made a total revenue of $1.596*(11,623) =  $18,550.31


What proportion of these figures WotC sees as a licensing fee, is hard to say without some more inside information.  (ie. Is is a flat fee, or a percentage of revenue?)

Quote from: ggroy;437435Let's examine how much IDW is actually making each month from the D&D comic.

Allegedly publishers sell new issues to Diamond, for around an average of 40% of the cover price.

http://www.icaruscomics.com/wp_web/?p=2354


For D&D issue #0, the cover price was $1.  So IDW sells it to Diamond for $0.40 per copy.  If the 23,657 copies sold figure for D&D issue #0 is reliable, then IDW made a total revenue of $0.40*(23,657) =  $9462.80

For D&D issue #1, the cover price was $3.99.  So IDW sells it to Diamond for $1.596 per copy.  If the 15,462 copies sold figure for D&D issue #1 is reliable, then IDW made a total revenue of $1.596*(15,462) =  $24,677.35

For D&D issue #2, the cover price was $3.99.  So IDW sells it to Diamond for $1.596 per copy.  If the 11,623 copies sold figure for D&D issue #2 is reliable, then IDW made a total revenue of $1.596*(11,623) =  $18,550.31


What proportion of these figures WotC sees as a licensing fee, is hard to say without some more inside information.  (ie. Is is a flat fee, or a percentage of revenue?)

There is a *real* good chance that no decision will be made on cancelling the book until the first trade paperback collection is released and sales numbers come back on those.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;437436There is a *real* good chance that no decision will be made on cancelling the book until the first trade paperback collection is released and sales numbers come back on those.

It's already scheduled for release on July 5, 2011.

http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-1-Shadowplague-HC/dp/1600109225

Allegedly it will cover the first story arc "Shadowplague", which is in the first five issues (http://comics.ign.com/objects/083/083146_list.html).

The next story arc will start in issue #6.

(Scroll down to Dungeons & Dragons section).;
http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-april-2011-solicitations

Is it standard practice to release an omnibus compilation as soon as 4 months later, after the last issue included in the omnibus?

Coincidentally, the July 2011 release date of this first IDW D&D omnibus comic compilation, is also when D&D issue #9 will be released.  (The second story arc, could possibly also be five issues).  If this first D&D omnibus compilation doesn't sell very well, in principle they can decide to axe this D&D series with issue #10 as the last issue in August 2011 (and concluding the second arc of issues #6 to #10).

Also in July 2011, that's when the first issue of IDW's "FORGOTTEN REALMS: THE LEGEND OF DRIZZT: NEVERWINTER TALES" comic series, will be released.  (This is assuming this Drizzt comic series is not abruptly canceled, before the first issue).

http://www.idwpublishing.com/catalog/series/1451

Unless in that comic Indel falls in a pit, Grimslade gets a new sword to replace the one the green slime ate and they all teleport miles away I AIN'T READIN' IT.

;)

Quote from: thedungeondelver;437442Unless in that comic Indel falls in a pit, Grimslade gets a new sword to replace the one the green slime ate and they all teleport miles away I AIN'T READIN' IT.

;)

You're not missing much.

So far this IDW D&D comic series reads like something straight out of many generic D&D games.  Very generic with almost every possible cliched D&D trope.

Quote from: ggroy;437439Is it standard practice to release an omnibus compilation as soon as 4 months later, after the last issue included in the omnibus?

To answer my own question, I checked out the data for another cheesy licensed game property made into a comic book:  "World of Warcraft".

The first omnibus compilation of the WoW comic series by DC Comics, covers issues #1 to #7.  This first omnibus was released on August 12, 2008.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraft-Walter-Simonson/dp/1401218369

Issue #7 of WoW, had a release date of May 21, 2008.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Revelations


So basically the turnaround time of the first Wow comic omnibus compilation, was a quick 3 months.

Quote from: ggroy;437439Is it standard practice to release an omnibus compilation as soon as 4 months later, after the last issue included in the omnibus?

That's actually kinda late for a collection. They usually wanna get the collection out as soon as possible, so people can get that and the new issue and be all caught up.

Hm.

Maybe the collections have just been rushed a times to take advantage of a series having a strong buzz.

Let's examine the (estimated) number of copies sold for the DC Comics "World of Warcraft" comic over its entire run (25 issues over 2007 -> 2009).

The data is from:

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

Format of data will be:  issue# - number of copies sold (position in top 300 list of number of copies sold during month sold)

1 - 44,492 (48 in November 2007)
2 - 32,720 (73 in December 2007)
3 - 31,158 (69 in January 2007)
4 - 28,963 (66 in February 2008)
5 - 27,151 (72 in March 2008)
6 - 26,266 (85 in April 2008)
7 - 24,582 (95 in May 2008)
8 - 23,302 (94 in June 2008)
9 - 22,198 (105 in July 2008)
10 - 20,872 (111 in August 2008)
11 - 19,325 (120 in September 2008)
12 - 18,198 (140 in October 2008)
13 - 17,013 (117 in November 2008)
14 - 16,056 (161 in December 2008)
15 - 14,991 (116 in January 2009)
16 - 14,175 (124 in February 2009)
17 - 13,612 (121 in March 2009)
18 - 13,109 (158 in April 2009)
19 - 12,536 (140 in May 2009)
20 - 12,269 (160 in June 2009)
21 - 12,648 (158 in July 2009)
22 - 12,118 (159 in August 2009)
23 - 11,949 (176 in September 2009)
24 - 10,436 (173 in October 2009)
25 - 10,062 (173 in November 2009)
special 1 - 10,323 (180 in December 2009)

(There were second printings of issues #1 and #2, which would increase each by around another 4000 copies).


Not surprisingly, the number of copies sold per issue went down as the series went on.  This DC WoW comic also shows a similar pattern as the IDW D&D comic, where the number of copies sold per issue was cut in half by the time it was a few issues into the series.

Most likely DC saw the sudden drop after issues #1-#3 and steady erosion over issues #4-#6, and knew all along that WoW would be a short-lived fad.  So they probably made a decision to release a first omnibus as soon as possible.  (It turned out the first storyline arc ended nicely in issue #7).

IIRC, this DC WoW comic series was originally planned to be 12 issues with two story arcs covering six issues each.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/835/835086p1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft_%28comics%29

It was later extended to more issues.  I suppose the number of copies sold per issue, was enough for DC to extend and keep around.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;437448Hm.

Maybe the collections have just been rushed a times to take advantage of a series having a strong buzz.

This would definitely be the case for a trendy/faddish type property, especially if it is also a licensed property.  They need to rely on the initial buzz to sell enough copies to pay off any initial large upfront licensing costs.

An omnibus covering the first story arc, would be the easiest to rush out while the buzz is still relatively strong.

(Looking through more past sales figures estimes).

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

It appears the lowest print run numbers the big companies (Marvel, DC) and smaller ones (IDW, etc ...) will tolerate for their comic series, is around 3000 copies sold per issue.  Stuff which ends up around there, appears to be some limited series comics by even the big companies.

On the other hand for regular comic series, the numbers appear to be slightly higher.  For example, some "Scooby Doo" comic series by DC seems to hover around 4000 copies sold per issue every month.

I suspect if the IDW D&D comic series falls in circulation numbers to the DC "Scooby Doo" numbers or less, then it would probably be very much the death knell of the IDW D&D comic series.

Starting with 11,623 copies sold for issue #2 of the IDW D&D, if the number of copies sold per issue falls by 1000 copies each successive month, then it would be lower than the "Scooby Doo" numbers by the time it reaches issue #10.

I only buy graphic novel compilations, much like a lot of my friends. Until there is a graphic novel, the series may as well not exist.

Quote from: danbuter;437489I only buy graphic novel compilations, much like a lot of my friends. Until there is a graphic novel, the series may as well not exist.

Hence my point about how they will wait for TPB numbers before the series is pulled.

No idea what exact criteria they're using to determine the "death knell" of a particular comic book series.

If we take the sales figures of the DC WoW comic series to be reliable, the number of copies sold per issue at the end of the series is at around 20% of the first issue.

If we extrapolate the 23,657 figure for the number of copies sold of D&D issue #0, then 20% of that is around 4731.  (ie.  Figures falling down to "Scooby Doo" numbers).

What's unknown is how much the WoW license cost DC.  Back in 2007, WoW was flying high in popularity.  Perhaps falling to less than 10,000 copies sold per issue, just isn't enough anymore to pay for the WoW license fee.

With a cover price of $2.99 and Diamond paying 40% of that, DC only sees $1.196 per copy.  With 10,000 copies sold per issue, DC only sees $11,986 revenue for an issue.

If Blizzard's WoW license fee was asking for something high like $10,000 per issue, then it's understandable that DC would eventually cancel the WoW comic series.  At around issue #13 of WoW, the number of copies sold was around 17,013.  This would bring DC around $1.196*(17,013) = $20,348 in revenue, of which almost half of the revenue goes straight to a $10,000 licensing fee.

In 2010-2011, I wouldn't be surprised if the WoW comic license still commands a higher asking price than a D&D comic license.

Let's examine if the IDW D&D comic licensing fee is a hypothetical $5000 per issue.  With a $3.99 cover price and Diamond paying them 40% of that, IDW only sees $1.596 per copy sold.  In order to pay a $5000 fee per issue, they would have to sell at least 3133 copies per issue just to break even.

If the D&D license fee is $10,000 per issue, then IDW would have to sell at least 6266 copies per issue just to break even.  If this is indeed the case, then more than half of the revenue of D&D issue #2 is going straight to the licensing fee already.  (D&D issue #2 sold around 11,623 copies).

Just noticed this.

If one ignores IDW D&D issue #0, the drop (in the number of copies sold per issue) from IDW D&D issue #1 to issue #2 is around 25%.

As a point of comparison by examining the DC "World of Warcraft" comic figures, it also has an approximate 25% drop from issue #1 to issue #2.

For later issues in the DC "World of Warcraft" comic series, the drop is approximately 5% from one issue to the next.

Let's examine a time series starting from IDW D&D issue #2 figure of 11,623 copies sold, with a 5% drop from one issue to the next.

2 - 11,623
3 - 11,042
4 - 10,490
5 - 9965
6 - 9467
7 - 8994
8 - 8544
9 - 8116
10 - 7711
11 - 7325
12 - 6959
13 - 6611
14 - 6280
15 - 5967
16 - 5668
17 - 5385
18 - 5116
19 - 4860
20 - 4617
21 - 4386
22 - 4167
23 - 3958
24 - 3760
25 - 3572
26 - 3393
27 - 3224
28 - 3063

From a previous post, the "break even" numbers to pay for the WotC license fees are:

$10,000 fee - 6266 copies
$5000 fee - 3133 copies

What's unknown is how much margin IDW is requiring to keep a particular comic title in production.  The revenue has to cover both the license fee and whatever margin IDW wants, which covers things like printing costs, rent on buildings, electricity, telephone, internet, paying writers/artists/editors, profit, etc ...


If IDW is suicidal enough to do things with almost zero margin, then this IDW D&D series in principle could last to issue #28 if the WotC license fee is $5000 per issue, or to issue #14 if the WotC license fee is $10,000 per issue.

The OP guy isn't nearly talented enough as a writer to be the comic world's RPGPundit.

RPGPundit

One possible way to infer how much margin IDW wants from each issue, is to examine their poorer selling comic titles which still show up on Diamond's top 300+ list, and which are not licensed properties.

One such candidate IDW comic series from 2010 showed up, which fits into this criteria:  Kill Shakespeare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Shakespeare

From sales figures (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html) deduced from Diamond, these figures showed up for "Kill Shakespeare":

1 - 5,447 (232 in April 2010)
2 - 3,703 (279 in May 2010)
3 - 3,861 (290 in July 2010)
4 - 3,495 (277 in August 2010)

Issues #5 to #8 do not even show up in Diamond's top 300+ monthly listings.  This probably means issue #5 and later are selling less than 3,495 copies per issue.

With a $3.99 cover price and Diamond buying them at 40% of cover price, IDW sees $1.596 per copy.  So for issue #4, IDW saw a revenue of $1.596*(3495) = $5578.02.  For issue #1, IDW saw a revenue of $1.596*(5447) = $8693.41.

If issues #5 and later are selling less than 3133 copies, IDW will be seeing a revenue of less than $5000 per issue.

Since IDW is most likely not paying any licensing fees for "Kill Shakespeare", perhaps it wouldn't be surprising to see IDW expecting to see a minimum revenue of $5000 per issue.  Anything significantly lower than $5000 per issue, will probably see a series being canceled.

For a licensed IDW comic title, most likely IDW wants to see at least a $5000 margin after the licensing fee is subtracted out from the revenue.

If you want a good comparison of licenced sales of idw comics use Gi joe or Transformers as your guides both are hasbro properties and thus will be a good indicator of how low idw can let sales drop on licenced comics(though gi joe may be the better indicator for low sales than transformers).

One could also infer the margin other publishers want to see, by examining a poorly selling comic series which was canceled recently, and where the publisher owns the intellectual property.

One comic series which fits this criteria, is "Unknown Solider" by DC Comics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_Soldier_%28DC_Comics%29

DC had various "Unknown Soldier" comic series back in the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's.

http://www.comicbookdb.com/search.php?form_search=unknown%20soldier&form_searchtype=FullSite

The recent "Unknown Soldier" series lasted 25 issues over 2008 -> 2010.  (It was announced on May 22, 2010 that the series was being canceled due to lackluster sales).

From sales figures (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html) deduced from Diamond, these figures showed up for the recent issues of "Unknown Soldier":

16 - 5,848 (221 in January 2010)
17 - 5,701 (216 in February 2010)
18 - 5,608 (255 in March 2010)
19 - 5,542 (230 in April 2010)
20 - *not in list*
21 - 5,371 (266 in June 2010)
22 - 5,238 (246 in July 2010)
23 - 5,090 (237 in August 2010)
24 - 5,100 (257 in October 2010)
25 - 4,962 (245 in November 2010)

With a cover price of $2.99 and Diamond paying 40% of cover price, DC will see $1.196 per copy.  For issue #25, DC will see a revenue of $1.196*(4962) = $5934.55.  For issue #24, DC will see a revenue of $1.196*(5100) = $6099.60.

In the case of DC Comics, perhaps they want to see at least a revenue of $6000 per issue for a comic series using their own properties (ie. not licensed).

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;437732If you want a good comparison of licenced sales of idw comics use Gi joe or Transformers as your guides both are hasbro properties and thus will be a good indicator of how low idw can let sales drop on licenced comics(though gi joe may be the better indicator for low sales than transformers).

The most recent "poorest" selling G.I. Joe titles are:

G.I. Joe Cobra II #11 - 8,008 (215 in December 2010)
G.I. Joe Cobra II #10 - 8,275 (188 in November 2010)

G.I. Joe Origins #22 - 8,597 (208 in December 2010)
G.I. Joe Origins #21 - 8,970 (178 in November 2010)

With a $3.99 cover price and Diamond buying them at 40% of cover price, IDW sees $1.596 per copy.  For G.I. Joe Cobra II #11, IDW sees $12,780.77 revenue.  For G.I. Joe Origins #22, IDW sees $13,720.81 revenue.

If we assume IDW wants to see at least a $5000 margin per issue, then the Hasbro licensing fee could be less than $7780.77 per issue (using the smallest revenue figure).

(Doing the same thing for the "poorest" selling IDW Transformers titles).

The most recent "poorest" selling Transformers titles are:

Transformers Sector 7 #4 - 5,236 (265 in December 2010)
Transformers Sector 7 #3 - 6,665 (212 in November 2010)
Transformers Sector 7 #2 - 7,100 (223 in October 2010)
Transformers Sector 7 #1 - 8,035 (225 in September 2010)

Transformers Sector 7 is a limited series of 5 issues.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Sector_7

With a $3.99 cover price and Diamond buying them at 40% of cover price, IDW sees $1.596 per copy.  For Transformers Sector 7 #4, IDW sees $8356.66 revenue.  For Transformers Sector 7 #3, IDW sees 10637.34 revenue.

If we assume IDW wants to see at least a $5000 margin per issue, then the Hasbro licensing fee could be less than $3356.66 per issue (using the smallest revenue figure).

It would probably help if we also knew exactly how the licencing works for comics as it may be a bulk fee per total sold each quarter or something.

Hmm ....

For Transformers Sector 7, there's a drastic drop of 21% from issue #3 to #4.

The revenue for issue #3 would be $10637.34.  If IDW wants a $5000 margin, then the Hasbro license fee could be less than $5637.34.

Wonder if Hasbro asks for a flat $5000 license fee per issue.

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;437740It would probably help if we also knew exactly how the licencing works for comics as it may be a bulk fee per total sold each quarter or something.

Of course.  This is the big unknown at this point, to individuals who aren't insiders nor versed in the standard comic book industry business practices.

Let's examine the last few issues of the DC "World of Warcraft" comic series.

WoW #23 - 11,949 (176 in September 2009)
WoW #24 -10,436 (173 in October 2009)

(Issue #25 is a double issue).

With a cover price of $2.99 and Diamond paying 40% of cover price, DC will see $1.196 per copy. For issue #24, DC will see $1.196*(10,436) = $12,481.46 revenue.  For issue #23, DC will see $1.196*(11,949) = $14,291.00 revenue.

Assuming that DC wants too see at least a $6000 margin, then the Blizzard WoW license fee could be less than $6481.46 per issue.

Perhaps the Blizzard WoW license fee could be $6000 per issue.

Quote from: RPGPundit;437715The OP guy isn't nearly talented enough as a writer to be the comic world's RPGPundit.

Yeah, he didn't use the word "cunt" at all!

Seanchai

Another IDW licensed property is "Army of Two (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_Two)" and "Dragon Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Age)".  It's a partnership between video game company Electronic Arts (EA) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Arts) and IDW.

http://www.ea.com/news/ea-and-idw-army-of-two-and-dragon-age-comics


Searching through sales figures, there's the following data of the issues released:

Army of Two #1 - 4,177 (257 in January 2010)
(issues #2 - #6 did not show up in Diamond's monthly top 300+ list)

Army of Two omnibus - 555 (September 2010)

Dragon Age #1 - 4,984 (270 in March 2010)
Dragon Age #2 - 4,760 (296 in June 2010)
Dragon Age #3 - 4,467 (253 in August 2010)
(issues #4 - #6 did not show up in Diamond's monthly top 300+ list)

With a $3.99 cover price and Diamond buying them at 40% of cover price, IDW sees $1.596 per copy.  For Army of Two #1, IDW would have seen $6666.49 in revenue.  For Dragon Age #3, IDW would have seen $7129.33 in revenue.

(For a $19.99 cover price for an omnibus and Diamond buying them at 40% of cover price, IDW sees $7.996 per copy.  For the Army of Two omnibus, IDW would have seen $4437.78 in revenue).  Not quite sure how these comic companies handle their omnibus books.

If we assume IDW wants at least $5000 margin per issue, then the EA license fee would be less than $1666.49 for Army of Two, or less than $2129.33 for Dragon Age.

If the EA license fee is $1000 to $2000 per issue, it appears EA didn't get much out of it.

Another license is the Doctor Who series by IDW.

Searching through sales figures, here's the following data of the Doctor Who Ongoing issues released over 2010:

16 - 6,198 (239 in October 2010)
15 - 6,620 (247 in September 2010)
14 - 6,492 (205 in August 2010)
13 - 6,636 (217 in July 2010)
12 - 6,754 (224 in June 2010)
11 - 6,743 (204 in May 2010)
10 - 6,784 (201 in April 2010)
9 - 6,990 (223 in March 2010)
8 - 7,014 (185 in February 2010)
7 - 7,239 (193 in January 2010)
6 - 7,448 (214 in December 2009)
5 - 7,954 (198 in November 2009)
4 - 8,349 (206 in October 2009)
3 - 8,704 (218 in September 2009)
2 - 8,899 (187 in August 2009)
1 - 10,942 (180 in July 2009)

It appears the number of copies sold per issue, plateaued out around 6700 in mid-2010.

With a $3.99 cover price and Diamond buying at 40% of cover price, IDW sees $1.596 per copy.  At the plateaued 6700 copies sold per issue over mid-2010, IDW would have seen $1.596*(6700) = $10,693.20 revenue per issue over mid-2010.

If we assume IDW wants at least a $5000 margin, then the Doctor Who license fee could be less than $5693.20 per issue during mid-2010.

Perhaps the Doctor Who license fee is a flat $5000 per issue.

In summary.  We make the following (questionable) assumptions:

- The number of copies sold per issue drops by around 25% from issue #1 to issue #2.

- After issue #2, the number of copies sold per issue drops by around 5% from one issue to the next.

- IDW wants at least a $5000 margin per issue each month (after the licensing fee is subtracted out).

- The licensing fee per issue is anywhere from $2000 to $7000 per issue.
(The lowball $2000 figure is from Dragon Age, while the $7000 figure is from the "poorest" selling G.I. Joe title).

Hence the minimum viable total revenue per issue is between $7000 and $12000, for a licensed property.

For a comic book cover price of $3.99 and Diamond buying at 40% of cover price, IDW sees $1.596 per copy sold.  So to produce a minimum revenue of $7000 or $12000 per issue, the minimum number of copies sold would be 4386 ($7000 revenue) or 7519 ($12000 revenue).


Taking a time series starting from the IDW D&D issue #2 figure of 11,623 copies sold, along with a 5% drop from one issue to the next, we get for the possible number of copies sold for successive issues:

2 - 11,623
3 - 11,042
4 - 10,490
5 - 9965
6 - 9467
7 - 8994
8 - 8544
9 - 8116
10 - 7711
11 - 7325
12 - 6959
13 - 6611
14 - 6280
15 - 5967
16 - 5668
17 - 5385
18 - 5116
19 - 4860
20 - 4617
21 - 4386
22 - 4167
23 - 3958
24 - 3760
25 - 3572
26 - 3393
27 - 3224
28 - 3063

If the WotC licensing fee is $2000 per issue ($7000 revenue), in principle the IDW D&D comic series could last until issue #20 or #21.

If the WotC licensing fee is $7000 per issue ($12000 revenue), in principle the IDW D&D comic series could last until issue #10.

If the WotC licensing fee is around $5000 per issue ($10000 revenue), in principle the IDW D&D comic series could last until issue #14 or #15.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;437490Hence my point about how they will wait for TPB numbers before the series is pulled.

Examining the TPB sales numbers over 2010, many IDW TPB titles only moved around 500 to 600 copies.  This is including many TPB ominibus compilations of big licenses like:  Transformers, G.I. Joe, Star Trek, Doctor Who, etc ...

Several IDW omnibus compilation TPB titles even moved less than 500 copies (ie. in the 300's).


IIRC, Diamond requires something like a minimum of $2500 in pre-orders for a particular title from direct channel comic stores, or else Diamond will not even carry the title or even outright cancel it (ie. it will never be seen in comic stores).

http://www.icaruscomics.com/wp_web/?p=2354

So for a $19.99 omnibus TPB, Diamond will pay 40% of cover price which is $19.99*(0.40) = $7.996 per copy.  In order to make the minimum $2500 threshold, a particular $19.99 omnibus TPB has to have at least 2500/7.996 = 313 copies pre-ordered through the Diamond direct market.

I suspect if the first IDW D&D volume 1 omnibus book (http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-1-Shadowplague-HC/dp/1600109225), sells significantly less than 500 copies through Diamond, most likely they will make a decision to cancel the D&D series at issue #10 or #15 (depending on the WotC license fee per issue).

Most likely IDW will be watching how well the upcoming DC AD&D and Forgotten Realms omnibus compilations will sell.

The DC Forgotten Realms volume 1 omnibus reprints is being released next month (March 1, 2011), by IDW.

http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Forgotten-Realms-Classics/dp/1600108636

The DC AD&D volume 1 omnibus reprints is being released May 3, 2011, by IDW.

http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Classics-Dan-Mishkin/dp/1600108954

If these omnibus TPB compilations of the old DC AD&D and Forgotten Realms comics, end up selling as low as 300 or 400 copies each through Diamond, most likely IDW will make a decision soon about whether to can the IDW D&D series.  The sales of the upcoming IDW D&D volume 1 omnibus in July, will most likely confirm what they already know.

You're assuming the bulk of their TPB sales are going through Diamond. If I recall correctly (and I may not be), Diamond only covers the direct market and not bookstores (Barnes & Noble, Borders and even Amazon).

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;437905You're assuming the bulk of their TPB sales are going through Diamond. If I recall correctly (and I may not be), Diamond only covers the direct market and not bookstores (Barnes & Noble, Borders and even Amazon).

IDW deals exclusively with Diamond.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/18/idw-become-premier-publisher-with-diamond/

QuoteAnd then there were…five. Diamond has just announced that IDW will join Marvel, DC, Image, and Dark Horse as a “premier publisher,” the first company to rise to that rank since the whole system was set up in 1996. Diamond will continue to act as IDW’s exclusive distributor to comics shops, and also to the book trade via Diamond Book Distributors.

QuoteBook Market Distribution

Diamond remains the exclusive book market distributor of IDW’s publishing efforts. “We’re extremely proud of the progress we’ve made in helping IDW grow its sales in the book store market over the last five years,” said Diamond Book Distributors VP Sales & Marketing, Kuo-Yu Liang. “From their strong licensed properties to their successful launch last year of the Worthwhile Books line for kids, IDW has adeptly shown what products will sell into the book market channel.

Let's examine more closely how IDW handled the EA license for "Army of Two" and "Dragon Age".

According the original press release (http://www.ea.com/news/ea-and-idw-army-of-two-and-dragon-age-comics), "Army of Two" and "Dragon Age" were originally suppose to be monthly series.

QuoteEA announced today that it has signed a deal with IDW Publishing to expand two of its intellectual properties, Army of Two and Dragon Age, into comics under a new EA Comics imprint with IDW beginning in January. EA and IDW will launch monthly, ongoing series for both Army of Two and Dragon Age.

In the end, it turned out both "Army of Two" and "Dragon Age" ended up being limited series of six issues for each.  After the first issue of "Army of Two" and the first three issues of "Dragon Age", they essentially fell off of Diamond's monthly top 300+ list of best selling comics (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=437777&postcount=48).


If one examines the original pre-order solicitations for IDW's "Army of Two", none of them indicated it was a limited series of six issues.  (Pre-order solicitations are usually done two months prior to a particular issue's release date, for many comic titles).

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-january-2010-solicitations

QuoteArmy of Two #1

Peter Milligan (w) • Dexter Soy (a) • Chester Ocampo (c)

Coinciding with the release Army of Two: The 40th Day, this new ongoing monthly series, written by comics veteran Peter Milligan (X-Statix, Greek Street), follows ex-Army Rangers Salem and Rios as they form their own Private Military Corporation: Trans World Operations. But the pair get more than they bargained for as they are unexpectedly caught in a brewing war between the Mexican Army, drug cartels, and The Maras-one of the most powerful street gangs in Mexico!

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-february-2010-solicitations

QuoteArmy of Two #2

Peter Milligan (w) • Dexter Soy (a) • Chester Ocampo (c)

ACROSS THE BORDER: Part 2: Trans World Operations' first mission is off to a bad start. With one operative dead, Salem and Rios find themselves in the middle of what looks like a civil war. Now, with trust eroding between them, Rios and Salem have to put their lives on the line as they're drawn deeper into the violent world of a murderous Mexican street gang known as the Maras.

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-march-2010-solicitations

QuoteArmy of Two #3

Peter Milligan (w) • Dexter Soy (a) • Chester Ocampo (c)

"Across the Border: Part 3." Tyson Rios and Elliot Salem have been framed for smuggling cocaine. These tough soldiers might have faced just about every danger in the world-but will it prepare them for the hell that waits in the Mexican Jail, where they must fight for their lives against corrupt guards as well as the sadistic criminals locked in with them? Meanwhile, Jaime tightens his bloodthirsty grip on the local underworld.

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-april-2010-solicitations

QuoteArmy of Two #4

Peter Milligan (w) • Dexter Soy, Jose Marzan Jr. (a) • Chester Ocampo (c)

Stockholm Syndrome and Mexican Mayhem, as Jaime's bid for power over the Maras reaches its most murderous. Meanwhile, Rios is a marked man after killing Borges, the leader of the prison gang. Can Salem rescue Rios before the prisoners exact revenge? Or has being in prison changed Rios into a gangster?

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-may-2010-solicitations

QuoteArmy of Two #5

Peter Milligan (w) • Dexter Soy, Jose Marzan Jr. (a) • Chester Ocampo (c)

Escaped prisoners on the run, Rios and Salem are hell-bent on getting back to America. After their chopper goes down in the Mexican desert, the Army of Two are on foot. With a price on their heads and their faces plastered across television everyone in Mexico wants them dead! Meanwhile, Jaime's lust for power has reached the upper levels of the Mexican government and may ignite a civil war!

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-june-2010-solicitations

QuoteArmy of Two #6

Peter Milligan (w) • Dexter Soy, Jose Marzan Jr. (a) • Chester Ocampo (c)

Jaime's rise from street kid to leader of the Maras street gang to power over the political machine in Mexico is complete! As terror and murder grips the streets, Jaime calls for the death of the two men who could possibly stop him: Rios and Salem! But this Army of Two won't go down without a fight, and in a final bloody confrontation will Rios and Salem be able to stop Jaime before Mexico is torn apart?

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

In the case of IDW's "Dragon Age", it's a different story.  Issue #1 was released in March 2010, but issue #2 was delayed to a June 2010 release date.

The pre-order solicitations for the first three issues did not indicate it was a limited series.  But issues #4 - #6 mentioned explicitly it was going to be a limited series.  

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-march-2010-solicitations

QuoteDragon Age #1

Orson Scott Card & Aaron Johnston (w) • Mark Robinson (a) • Humberto Ramos (c)

Hailed as "the RPG of the Decade" by PC Gamer magazine, Dragon Age: Origins has redefined the modern fantasy roleplaying game. Now, the innovative game from BioWare becomes the latest hit comic from EA Comics!

In a time lost to history, a war ravaged the land. Mages, incredibly powerful wielders of magic, ruled the world through mastery of dark arts and forbidden spells. Their lust for power almost destroyed all existence, and unleashed an unholy pestilence, the Darkspawn, to plague mankind, trolls, faeries, and all the inhabitants of the realm. Now magic is carefully controlled, taught behind the sacred walls of the Circle of Magi, and monitored by the ever-vigilant Templars. It is in this arena that a new generation of Mages in training will arise, warriors of sorcery who will defy the rules of the Templars and change the course of the world forever.

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

Written by multiple award-winning and New York Times bestselling author Orson Scott Card (Ender's Game, Ultimate Iron Man) and Aaron Johnston (Ender's Game: Mazer in Prison) with art by breakout artist Mark Robinson (Skrull Kill Krew) and covers by superstar artist Humberto Ramos, DRAGON AGE will take you to a world beyond imagination!

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-june-2010-solicitations

QuoteDragon Age #2

Orson Scott Card, Aaron Johnston (w) • Mark Robinson (a) • Humberto Ramos (c)

From the game called "the best story-driven RPG in the world" (PC Gamer) and bestselling author Orson Scott Card (Ender's Game, Ultimate Iron Man) and Aaron Johnston, the epic tale of Dragon Age continues! Gleam, child of a powerful mage and a ruthless templar, is now grown with powers of her own. Can she stop the Darkspawn from murdering her adopted family?

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=208&itemid=13033

QuoteDragon Age #3

Orson Scott Card, Aaron Johnston (w) • Mark Robinson (a) • Humberto Ramos (c)

Their family dead, Gleam and her brothers Agmo and Datlin strike out on the road to find the killers. But after magically healing her brother Agmo during a fight Gleam draws some unwanted attention, from the dwarf Minderel as well as a group of murderous blood demon disciples of the Man of Light!

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-august-2010-solicitations

QuoteDragon Age #4 (of 6)

Orson Scott Card, Aaron Johnston (w) • Mark Robinson (a) • Humberto Ramos (c)

Gleam had always been careful to hide her magical abilities, but when her brother is injured in a fight she has no choice but to use her powers to save him in public. That draws the attention of the templars, and one knight in particular: Duty, who was once known as Sadatt-her father. Will this reunion bring joy or death to both?

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-september-2010-solicitations

QuoteDragon Age #5 (of 12)

Orson Scott Card, Aaron Johnston (w) • Mark Robinson (a) • Humberto Ramos (c)

Captured by the templars and revealed to be a mage, Gleam finds herself bound for the Circle Tower, the last place a wielder of magic would want to go. But templars aren't the only danger in the woods, as Gleam must confront a monstrous spider whose venom can kill in an instant!

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-november-2010-solicitations

QuoteDragon Age #6 (of 6)

Orson Scott Card, Aaron Johnston (w) • Mark Robinson (a) • Humberto Ramos (c)

Having escaped the templars, Gleam, Agmo, and the dwarf Minderel exit the Deep Roads in a camp under siege by a group of bandits. As the village burns Gleam must use her magic to put out the fires, as her father, the templar named Duty, is close on her heels. Having escaped, her fate is sealed—she must be killed. But can her father kill her as he did her mother?

FC • 32 pages • $3.99

Note that the pre-order solicitation for Dragon Age issue #4 mentioned it was a six issue limited series.  Dragon Age issue #5 mentioned it was a twelve issue limited series, while Dragon Age issue #6 went back to saying it was a six issue limited series.

Assuming the "twelve issue limited series" thing isn't a misprint, the change to an explicit limited series and this hemming and hawing over whether whether it should be 6 or 12 issues, along with an erratic release schedule, suggests they (EA and IDW) didn't know what to do with the Dragon Age series after lackluster initial sales.

IDW's Dragon Age ended up having a somewhat erratic release schedule:

Issue #1 - March 31, 2010 (http://previewsworld.com/shipping/archive/2010/033110.txt)
Issue #2 - June 30, 2010 (http://previewsworld.com/shipping/archive/2010/063010.txt)
Issue #3 - August 18, 2010 (http://previewsworld.com/shipping/archive/2010/081810.txt)
Issue #4 - September 9, 2010 (http://previewsworld.com/shipping/archive/2010/090910.txt)
Issue #5 - September 29, 2010 (http://previewsworld.com/shipping/archive/2010/092910.txt)
Issue #6 - December 8, 2010 (http://previewsworld.com/shipping/archive/2010/120810.txt)


IDW's "Army of Two" had a regular release schedule over January -> June 2010.

The only explanation I can think of offhand for such an erratic release schedule for the IDW "Dragon Age" comic issues, would be something mentioned by Chris Pramas (of Green Ronin) about the approvals process with EA/Bioware which went on with the "Dragon Age" rpg.

http://www.greenronin.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8518&p=86642#p86642

QuoteIf there's one thing I hate doing, it's lying to my customers, even when it's inadvertent. The nature of licensed products is such that they can move around on the schedule wildly depending on how the approvals process goes. This is why we haven't announce a release date for Set 2 yet. The GM's Kit is imminent and Blood in Ferelden is close. I know it appears like little is going on, but a lot is happening behind the scenes. We are committed to the Dragon Age game and it will be one of our major lines for the next several years.

_________________
Chris Pramas
Green Ronin Publishing

By sheer coincidence, the release dates of the Green Ronin "Dragon Age" rpg titles almost correlates with the erratic release schedule of the IDW "Dragon Age" comic issues.

- PDF of Dragon Age box set (December 9, 2009 (http://greenronin.com/2009/12/dragon_age_rpg_set_1_pre-order.php))
- 1st Dragon Age box set (February 8, 2010 (http://greenronin.com/2010/01/now_shipping_dragon_age_rpg_se.php))
- Dragon Age GM's Kit (August 17, 2010 (http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Age-Game-Masters-Kit/dp/1934547328))
- Dragon Age: Blood in Ferelden (December 7, 2010 (http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Age-Ferelden-Walt-Ciechanowski/dp/1934547336))

Perhaps IDW got sick and tired of EA/Bioware taking forever to go through the approvals process for each issue.

So IDW possibly decided to cut their losses in April or early-May 2010, by abruptly changing the "Dragon Age" comic into a limited series as of issue #4 and ending the "Army of Two" series.  (May 21, 2010 is when the pre-order solicitations list for August 2010 issues first appeared online (http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-august-2010-solicitations), which "Dragon Age" issue #4 appeared in).

Going back earlier to March 24, 2010, the pre-order solicitation list for June 2010 issues first appeared online (http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-june-2010-solicitations), which "Army of Two" issue #6 and "Dragon Age" issue #2 appeared in.  "Army of Two" did not appear at all in the next month's pre-order solicitation list (http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=208&itemid=13033) which first appeared online on April 20, 2010.

Another recent DC Comics license is the video game Assassin's Creed by Ubisoft.

Looking through recent sales figures (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html) for the Assassin's Creed 3-issue limited series, we have:

1 - 6,941 (208 in November 2010)
2 - 5,915 (251 in December 2010)

Issue #3 was originally suppose to be released in January 2011 (http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/dc-comics-january-2011-solicitations), but was delayed and is now being released this week (February 9, 2011 (http://previewsworld.com/public/default.asp?t=2&m=1&c=6&s=428)).

With a cover price of $3.99 and Diamond paying 40% of cover price, DC only sees $1.596 per copy.  For issue #1, DC saw $11,077.84 in revenue.  For issue #2, DC saw $9440.34 in revenue.

Assuming DC wants to see at least a $6000 margin, the Ubisoft license fee could in principle be less than $3440 per issue (using the issue #2 revenue figure).

Perhaps the Ubisoft license fee is around $3000 (or less) per issue.

Quote from: ggroy;437435For D&D issue #0, the cover price was $1.  So IDW sells it to Diamond for $0.40 per copy.  If the 23,657 copies sold figure for D&D issue #0 is reliable, then IDW made a total revenue of $0.40*(23,657) =  $9462.80

Thinking in terms of printing costs, if the printing + shipping costs per copy was more than 40 cents per copy, then this D&D issue #0 would not have made a penny for IDW.

Quote from: ggroy;438051Perhaps IDW got sick and tired of EA/Bioware taking forever to go through the approvals process for each issue.

So IDW possibly decided to cut their losses in April or early-May 2010, by abruptly changing the "Dragon Age" comic into a limited series as of issue #4 and ending the "Army of Two" series.  (May 21, 2010 is when the pre-order solicitations list for August 2010 issues first appeared online (http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/lists/idw-publishing-august-2010-solicitations), which "Dragon Age" issue #4 appeared in).

I think I found a less sinister possible reason for this abrupt change of the IDW "Dragon Age" comic into a limited series.


There was an official announcement of an upcoming "Dragon Age II" video game on July 8, 2010 (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/07/08/dragon-age-2-revealed-on-game-informer-cover-praise-andraste/).

Previously there was some innuendo hinting at a possible "Dragon Age II" video game, in January (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/01/29/bioware-says-dragon-age-2-to-look-super-hot/) and March (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/11/mystery-dragon-age-project-dated-feb-1-2011/) 2010.

Most likely IDW was aware of this innuendo, and probably asked Bioware about it.  They agreed to officially change the "Dragon Age" comic series into a limited series (if it wasn't one to start off with).


Perhaps IDW is working on a "Dragon Age II" comic series right now.

(Scroll down to the bottom of the screen)
http://www.idwpublishing.com/news/article/1543/

Let's look more closely at the costs involved in making an issue of a comic.

Came across this page (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Comic-books-Comics-683/Comicbook-Industry.htm) which outlines the costs of the artists.  It's from 2003.

Quote- There is a pay rate per page, But please note that these are only standard payments, which are subject to change by time.

1- Newcomer:-
a)- Penciler: $10-60
b)- Inker: $10-25
c)- Colorist: $5-20
d)- Cover Penciler: $40-75
E)- Cover inker: $25-50
F)- Cover colorist: $75-250

2- Seasoned Artist: -
a)- Penciler: $50-120
b)- Inker: $25-60
c)- Colorist: $25-60
d)- Cover Penciler: $100-200
E)- Cover inker: $75-100
F)- Cover colorist: $250-700

3- A pro:
a)- Penciler: $100 &up
b)- Inker: $60&up
c)- Colorist: $60&up
d)- Cover Penciler: $200&up
E)- Cover inker: $100&up
F)- Cover colorist: $1,000 &up

I can't vouch fully for the accuracy of these figures, but the figures for the "seasoned artist" penciler seems plausible.  (It doesn't mention what a letterer, writer, or editor makes per page).

From friends who are amateur artists, many of them have mentioned it would take them around a day or two to draw one page typical of a comic book with 4+ panels (without doing any inking or coloring), depending on the detail required.  They all mentioned they can't work continuously all day with no breaks, or else it would drive them nuts.  When they spend an entire day doing canvas drawings, they would spend a few hours drawing, and take an hour or so off, and then continue drawing again (several times during the day).  Excluding breaks from drawing, their drawing time would be approximately the number of hours working a full time job during a day.  At the federal minimum wage of $7.25 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages), working 8 hours full time would get $58.

No idea how many pages an inker or colorist can do in one day.

Using the "seasoned artist" figures, the low end for penciler + inker + colorist is $100 per page while the high end is $240 per page.  For a cover artwork, the low end is $425 while the high end is $1000.

So for a typical generic comic book with 22 pages of actual comic art (the rest of the pages are editorial and other crap), at the low end it would cost $2200 while the high end costs around $5280.  Add in the cost of a cover, the low end would cost $2625 while the high end would cost $6280.  In the middle, it would cost around $4450.  (These figures don't include the cost of the letterer, writer, and editor).

When it comes to printing costs, the only semi-official quoted figures I've heard of were from Quebecor World (http://books.google.ca/books?id=Jn4qwJ7LdMUC&pg=PA142&lpg=PA142&dq=quebecor+world+comics+dc+marvel&source=bl&ots=-NKLhRJMix&sig=3F6lqOVAx53TNyReDctikPKmRP0&hl=en&ei=czxPTd7DBMP58AaXuuS_Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=quebecor%20world%20comics%20dc%20marvel&f=false) (who is/was DC Comic's main printer).

Some individual figures were $1308 for 2000 copies (without shipping) of a B&W comic book with color covers (http://www.yaytime.com/guides/comics/guide2_printers.pdf) (back in 2005), which is about 65 cents per copy.  (For poorer selling comic issues with colored pages, I have no idea how much it deviates from 65 cents per copy).  Nevertheless, we'll take 65 cents per copy as a lowball figure.

Let examine some poorer selling titles, such as IDW's "Kill Shakespeare (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=437730&postcount=38)".  Issue #4 had a revenue of $5578.02 from 3,495 copies sold through Diamond.  Most likely the artists who were hired to do "Kill Shakespeare" were paid at the lower end of the "seasoned artist" figures.  For 3,495 copies, it would cost around $0.65*(3495) = $2271.75 to print.  So the total cost of the artists + printing is $4896.75 as a lowball figure.  Subtracting this from the revenue, $681.27 is left to cover the cost of the writer, editor, shipping, profit, etc ...

One can calculate the minimum number of copies to sell, in order to cover the fixed costs of the penciler + inker + colorist + printing.

The (unrealistic) assumptions we'll use are:

- the cover price is $3.99 and Diamond pays 40% of cover price
- printing costs are a fixed 65 cents per copy
- the costs of the editors, letterer, writer, shipping/storage, etc ... are ignored
- a fixed license fee X per issue
- penciler + inker + colorist are paid at the low end of "seasoned artist" ($2625 per issue)

Without going through the algebra, the minimum number of issues N required to cover the fixes costs of artists + printing + license fees X (while ignoring everything else) is:

N > (X + 2625)/0.946

For various fixed license fees X:

X = $1000, N > 3832
X = $2000, N > 4889
X = $3000, N > 5946
X = $4000, N > 7003
X = $5000, N > 8060
X = $6000, N > 9117
X = $7000, N > 10174
X = $8000, N > 11232

In the case of the IDW D&D comic, most likely the WotC license fee is less than $8000 per issue.

Using the formula for minimum number of issues N sold from previous post (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=438179&postcount=62), we can determine more constraints on a WotC license fee.

We'll assume the number of copies sold per issue drops by around 25% from issue #1 to issue #2, and afterward the number of copies sold per issue drops by around 5% from one issue to the next.

Taking a time series starting from the IDW D&D issue #2 figure of 11,623 copies sold, along with a 5% drop from one issue to the next, we get for the possible number of copies sold for successive issues:

2 - 11,623
3 - 11,042
4 - 10,490
5 - 9965
6 - 9467
7 - 8994
8 - 8544
9 - 8116
10 - 7711
11 - 7325
12 - 6959
13 - 6611
14 - 6280
15 - 5967
16 - 5668
17 - 5385
18 - 5116
19 - 4860
20 - 4617
21 - 4386
22 - 4167
23 - 3958
24 - 3760
25 - 3572
26 - 3393
27 - 3224
28 - 3063

Since 6 issues of the IDW D&D are already scheduled for release, then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $7000 per issue.

If they plan on doing two story arcs lasting five issues each (ie. to issue 10), then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $5000 per issue.

If they plan on doing three story arcs lasting five issues each (ie. to issue 15), then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $4000 per issue.

If they plan on doing four story arcs lasting five issues each (ie. to issue 20), then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $2000 per issue.

If they plan on doing five story arcs lasting five issues each (ie. to issue 25), then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $1000 per issue (or even zero with no fee).

No offense intended, but are you autistic?

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;438185No offense intended, but are you autistic?

Seanchai

I don't believe so.

It's just a stream of consciousness thinking.  ;)

Quote from: ggroy;438187I don't believe so.

It's just a stream of consciousness thinking.  ;)

Why?

Either you buy the damn book or you don't.

Obsessing about whether or not it sells doesn't get you a bigger paycheck, nicer house, spiritual fulfillment, or get you laid.

Either you like the D&D COMIC BOOK and you buy it for enjoyment - or you don't.

 The rest is just spinning your wheels bullshit.


- Ed C.

Quote from: ggroy;438187It's just a stream of consciousness thinking.

Very detailed stream of consciousness thinking backed by research. Which isn't a bad thing, just odd, especially considering that few seem to be disagreeing (or even interested).

Seanchai

The IDW Dark Sun and upcoming IDW Forgotten Realms Drizzt series I'm interested in.  Not so much the main IDW D&D series.

This analysis is applicable to any comic book series.  It just happens this is an rpg message board, where D&D is of some interest.

The impression I'm getting from this analysis, is that the financials of the comic book business really sucks for anything which is not a huge DC or Marvel title.

Quote from: Koltar;438214The rest is just spinning your wheels bullshit.


- Ed C.

Many people on here like doing the "spinning the wheels bullshit" thing.

Just go to the main rpg section or the pundit's own section of this message board.  :D

Quote from: Seanchai;438219Very detailed stream of consciousness thinking backed by research.  Which isn't a bad thing, just odd, especially considering that few seem to be disagreeing (or even interested).

Not surprising, considering this isn't a comic book message board.

The research isn't even that extensive.  For example for better data on printing costs, one would phone up Quebecor World and ask for quotes for different sized print runs for a comic book with different features (ie. colored pages, etc ...).

For Koltar's objection to this thread being about D&D specifically, let's do the same detailed analysis for licensed properties which are not D&D related at all.  (Nor a popular tabletop rpg, or even a tabletop rpg for that matter).

Examine Assassin's Creed by DC comics (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=438081&postcount=58).  Issue #2 had a revenue of $9440.34 from 5,915 copies sold through Diamond. Most likely the artists were "seasoned artists" paid at the lower end figures ($2625).  For 5,915 copies printed at 65 cents each, the printing cost would be $3844.75.  The total cost of artists + printing is $6469.75 as a lowball figure.  Subtracting this from the revenue, $2970.59 is left to cover the cost of the writer, editor, shipping, profit, Ubisoft's license fee, etc ...  Most likely Ubisoft's license fee is less than this.  (Perhaps less than $2000 per issue).

Examine "Army of Two" by IDW (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=437777&postcount=48).  Issue #1 had a revenue of $6666.49 from 4177 copies sold through Diamond.  (Issues #2 - #6 did not make it into Diamond's monthly top 300+ list of best selling comic issues).  Most likely the artists were "seasoned artists" paid at the lower end figures ($2625).  For 4177 copies printed at 65 cents each, the printing cost would be $2715.05.  The total cost of artists + printing is $5304.05 as a lowball figure.  Subtracting this from the revenue, $1336.44 is left to cover the cost of the writer, editor, shipping, profit, EA's license fee, etc ...  (Perhaps EA's license fee is less than $1000 per issue, or even no fee?)

Examine "Dragon Age" by IDW (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=437777&postcount=48).  Issue #3 had a revenue of $7129.33 from 4467 copies sold through Diamond.  (Issues #4 - #6 did not make it into Diamond's monthly top 300+ list of best selling comic issues).  Most likely the artists were "seasoned artists" paid at the lower end figures ($2625).  For 4467 copies printed at 65 cents each, the printing cost would be $2903.55.  The total cost of artists + printing is $$5528.55 as a lowball figure.  Subtracting this from the revenue, $1600.78 is left to cover the cost of the writer, editor, shipping, profit, EA/Bioward's license fee, etc ...  (Perhaps EA/Bioware's license fee is less than $1000 per issue, or even no fee?)


With these EA and Ubisoft licenses, perhaps they're not even taking a license fee per issue.  A $1000 to $2000 per issue license fee would be peanuts to a big video game company.   Another possibility is that instead of a license fee, EA and Ubisoft made a deal to place their ads (possibly at a very low cost or even for free) in their respective licensed comics in lieu of a license fee.  In effect, such an arrangement would essentially be another form of advertisement for the video game companies, while the comic book company (IDW or DC) bears the brunt of the expenses in producing and marketing the comic.

Its not an 'objection'.

Are you going to buy the comic book or not?
Why the fuck should the rest of us care if this book succeeds or not? (while we're happily buying 'LEGION of Super Heroes' or the  latest X-MEN...)

Goddamn Ggoy, look in your local paper, see what movies are playing - and ask somebody out on a date.


.......or call your friends up and say : "Hey I want to do a game session based on Superheroes . Who's interested?"


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;438248Are you going to buy the comic book or not?

I already have the next two issues of the D&D and Dark Sun issues on pre-order.

Quote from: Koltar;438248Why the fuck should the rest of us care if this book succeeds or not?

Then why are you reading this thread?

Feel free to place me on your "ignore" list.

Quote from: Koltar;438248Its not an 'objection'.

Yes it is!  ;)

Quote from: Koltar;438248Goddamn Ggoy, look in your local paper, see what movies are playing - and ask somebody out on a date.

No good movies.  I've been dating someone for the last year or so.

Quote from: Koltar;438248.......or call your friends up and say : "Hey I want to do a game session based on Superheroes . Who's interested?".

None of my local nearby friends are rpg gamers.  (They're not gamers at all, for the most part).

Over the last several years, I've only really gamed with acquaintances and strangers.

Hey Ed.

If you really don't like this thread, go ask the Pundit (or another admin) to lock up the thread.  If they agree with you, they'll lock it up.