It was good.
Quite good.
I'll have more to say later.
One a scale of Dark World to Avengers, how would you rate it?
Quote from: Pat;1026487One a scale of Dark World to Avengers, how would you rate it?
Better than or equal to either "Avengers" movie.
- Ed C.
Strong performance from both T'chala and Killmonger excelent supporting cast. I particularly liked the banter between panther and his little sister.
(Now the we are giving black actors big roles I need to learn a whole new set of names, it took me long enough to learn the first set)
Yeah. It was a great movie. As good as any of the avengers. As good as Captian America: the first avenger. Which was the high water mark for me.
I don't think I liked it as much as Guardians vol.1. But it was a better movie and I think will hold up better to reapeated watching. Guardians had a tonne of quick clever gags and subversions of the trope which worked great. Star Lord challenging Ronin the Accuser to a dance off! That was great. They weren't as fresh in Vol.2 and while they worked in Thor Ragnarok they felt transplanted.
Panther avoided the pit fall of chasing that wave. They weren't making that movie so they didn't try to transplant that humor. They did have a couple gags but they worked and they weren't over done.
The only low point was the specitical. There were a couple big swooping shots of high tech Wakanda which I just wasn't that interested in, all CGI of course, and they didn't grab me. But every time there was a person on screen it was a great movie.
1. Captain America: Winter Soldier
2. Avengers
3. Captain America: Civil War
4. Thor: Ragnarok
5. Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 1
6. Spiderman: Homecoming
7. Black Panther
But I'm a sucker for the Cosmic stuff so it ranks higher for me. That being said the style and sound was so different for BP that I liked it just for that. I personally didn't like T'Chala but so much of the supporting cast was so awesome that I think he was overshadowed. It was much more an ensemble in my opinion.
I don't really get why the Killmonger character is getting such high praise. He's just another revenge-driven villain that emerges from the film hero's prehistory in a pattern that Marvel has done to death. He's not notably different from Malekith, Hela, Whiplash, or Killian.
Whiplash doesn't change how Ironman interacts with the world. Killmonger changes Wakandan foriegn policy.
And he was a total bad ass.
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/02/black-panther-erik-killmonger/553805/
Quote from: Headless;1026782And he was a total bad ass.
Sorry, but I don't see it.
Sure. If you don't see it I can't convince you.
What were you favorite marvel villans. Loki doesn't count for now. (Except maybe in the first avengers movie)
Quote from: HappyDaze;1026814Sorry, but I don't see it.
Then you must be blind....
- Ed C.
Quote from: Headless;1026876Sure. If you don't see it I can't convince you.
What were you favorite marvel villans. Loki doesn't count for now. (Except maybe in the first avengers movie)
If I have to choose a vengeance-driven villain that has newly revealed ties to the hero, then I choose Hela. She changed the way Thor interacts with the world by upending the hell out of Asgard.
Otherwise, Loki would be a great choice, but since you don't want him, I'll say the Vulture. This was a guy with motivations that made far more sense than just rage/hate/jealously-driven attacks on the hero of the story.
I also liked Ego because, again, he wasn't a vengeance-driven villain. He had his own goal that wasn't focused on ruining the hero (OK, sure, that was a byproduct, but Ego's motivation was to expand not to fuck with Star Lord).
Quote from: Koltar;1026916Then you must be blind....
- Ed C.
Rather than insult me, why not tell me why you think Killmonger was a "total bad ass" compared to other Marvel villains?
Quote from: HappyDaze;1026921Rather than insult me, why not tell me why you think Killmonger was a "total bad ass" compared to other Marvel villains?
Well, first off being a 'total badass' is what a 12 year old boy wants to see in a movie not an adult person. Just say you want to see a cartoon with lots of violence.
The reason Killmonger is a great villian is because of his back story and the somewhat attractive rhetoric he says when trying to take over the kingdom of Wakanda.
He is a villain both anger issues and a brain and he speaks eloquently. There is a charisma about him.
- Ed C.
I was not impressed by Black Panther as there was a distinct lack of panthers who were black within the movie. Just a bunch of superheroes, not nearly enough felines. I give this movie two thumbs down giving midgets prostate massages.
Vulture was great.
Quote from: Headless;1026933Vulture was great.
Which is imo, entirely due to Keaton's performance. He made the character feel real, compared to Happy Hogan who comes across as a caricature due to a lack of serious talent as opposed to comedic talent.
Happy hogan?
Yeah Vulture was almost entirely Keaton. Its a pretty bland set up but Keaton fills it with both pathos and menace.
I think Vulture and Killmonger are both very American villians. Obviously in very different ways.
Quote from: Headless;1026953Happy hogan?
Yeah Vulture was almost entirely Keaton. Its a pretty bland set up but Keaton fills it with both pathos and menace.
I think Vulture and Killmonger are both very American villians. Obviously in very different ways.
Happy is Stark's right hand man and the buffer between himself and Spiderman.
Of the other cinematic villains, we have:
Iron Monger
The Abomination
Ivan Vanko
Loki
Red Skull
Loki
The Mandarin / Aldrich Killian
Malekith
The Winter Soldier / Alexander Pierce
Ronan
Ultron
Yellowjacket
Helmut Zemo
Kaecilius
Ego
Vulture
Killmonger
Most of these were pretty darn boring, in my opinion, with the stand-out exceptions being Loki and Vulture. (I don't count The Winter Soldier since he isn't really a villain.)
I thought Killmonger is a close third to these two. He isn't just out for revenge - he has a cause that is interesting and thought-provoking.
In general, I'd place Black Panther in my top five of the 17 MCU films. My top five being The Avengers, The Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, Spider-Man: Homecoming, and now Black Panther. That's in order of release date. Ranking among those, Black Panther isn't the best, but it's still very good.
I particularly liked the ensemble cast, the art and production design - their vision of Wakanda and its people, and the larger story arc. I thought a lot of the action wasn't that great, though, and the use of CGI often felt clunky. Plus a number of minor annoyances from being a fan of the comic.
Quote from: Koltar;1026491Better than or equal to either "Avengers" movie.
- Ed C.
I thought it was far better than the Avengers movies. I absolutely loved it. Captain America's very poignant ending puts it at a tie with Black Panther for me, but BP was overall the stronger film.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1026755I don't really get why the Killmonger character is getting such high praise. He's just another revenge-driven villain that emerges from the film hero's prehistory in a pattern that Marvel has done to death. He's not notably different from Malekith, Hela, Whiplash, or Killian.
I'd completely disagree. Most Marvel supervillains are 2D and boring, especially on screen. I never felt Hela came to life at all. Killmonger as a black supremacist Hitleresque National Socialist was a really powerful character I thought, especially because the audience were invited to sympathise with his grievances while ultimately rejecting his message.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1026949Which is imo, entirely due to Keaton's performance. He made the character feel real, compared to Happy Hogan who comes across as a caricature due to a lack of serious talent as opposed to comedic talent.
Yeah, Vulture was a great character, but Keaton's acting had to be a huge part of that.
I didn't read Killmonger as a black suprimist. Just black vengeance. But if you say thats a distinction with out a difference I won't argue.
Quote from: S'mon;1027124I'd completely disagree. Most Marvel supervillains are 2D and boring, especially on screen. I never felt Hela came to life at all. Killmonger as a black supremacist Hitleresque National Socialist was a really powerful character I thought, especially because the audience were invited to sympathise with his grievances while ultimately rejecting his message.
Hela worked for me. She was the cast aside child that had actually played a major role in building up what would become Asgard but was then found to be too rough around the edges to be kept around once Asgard started to shine. She really showed the ugly side of Asgard and she had a better reason to be personally bitter than Killmonger ever did ("your daddy killed my daddy" isn't very interesting to me), and I never got any impression that Killmonger really gave a shit beyond anyone but himself despite his claims to the contrary.
Quote from: S'mon;1027125Yeah, Vulture was a great character, but Keaton's acting had to be a huge part of that.
Doesn't that line of reasoning apply to just about all of the characters? What's left of Loki without Hiddleson or Killmonger without Jordan?
Quote from: Headless;1027206I didn't read Killmonger as a black suprimist. Just black vengeance. But if you say thats a distinction with out a difference I won't argue.
He didn't just want to kill non-blacks, he wanted to rule them too. He was about as straightforwardly racial supremacist as any character I've ever seen.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1027237Doesn't that line of reasoning apply to just about all of the characters? What's left of Loki without Hiddleson or Killmonger without Jordan?
I'd certainly agree re Loki. I think Killmonger was well written as well as well acted.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1027235Hela worked for me. She was the cast aside child that had actually played a major role in building up what would become Asgard but was then found to be too rough around the edges to be kept around once Asgard started to shine. She really showed the ugly side of Asgard and she had a better reason to be personally bitter than Killmonger ever did ("your daddy killed my daddy" isn't very interesting to me), and I never got any impression that Killmonger really gave a shit beyond anyone but himself despite his claims to the contrary.
I guess I just can't take Marvel's mangling of Norse mythology seriously when it's so much lamer than the real thing.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1027237Doesn't that line of reasoning apply to just about all of the characters? What's left of Loki without Hiddleson or Killmonger without Jordan?
Even with good actors, Iron Monger, Whiplash and Killian were boring as fuck. Likewise Pierce and Abomination were very flat.
Loki, Hela and Ultron were pretty good, Vulture was great and Malikith and Ronan are just a fucking mess.
I don't even remember Killian.
Quote from: Headless;1027398I don't even remember Killian.
My point exactly. Most of the marvel villains are forgettable.
Ultron and the Red Skull were interesting. Just poorly used.
Zemo is so far the biggest botch. Zola being a close second.