Jeeze, Bill, half or more of that list seems to apply to me. I must be autistic!

Thanks. Now I'm off to go get some GOOOOODDDDD drugs...

Quote from: estar;282193To clarify they will see there are problems not necessarily know it is autism. I think it in most cases shows up first as developmental delays. Your kid miss multiple milestones so you get it checked out and it starts from there. Parents come in all varieties so it hard to be specific.

Well, this was my initial concern with Theo. He qualifies for several traits on that list...so do quite a few of the kids he knows. The problem I have is that much of that list can be applied to a developing child. Let's take Theo for instance. He is behind on speaking. Is he autisitic? I do not think so (neither does his regular doctor but sure enough, we were able to find a doctor more than happy to say yes due to our very tasty health insurance). I taught him to sign when he was 1. My bad. He now prefers signing over speaking. Is he autistic? I don;t think so but I am not a trained physician. So I go to a trained physician, one who has treated Theo for the past 3 years. She says no, she does not think so. As a good parent, I get a second opinion. The next physician, based on 1 hour interview, some questions to mom and I and a "your insurance covers treatment" statement, says "He might be". So who do I believe?

Note: I am not saying anything about people with autistic children here. My issue has been with the medical profession. I also have to wonder about the parent who is not as anal compulsive as I am about knowing as much as possible about any sort of diagnosis applied to my loved ones. I could see a parent fretting over their child's welfare and readily agreeing to move forward.

Quote from: Spike;282196Jeeze, Bill, half or more of that list seems to apply to me. I must be autistic!

Thanks. Now I'm off to go get some GOOOOODDDDD drugs...

Spike, I know how you feel. Worse, imagine your young Pika child fititng a lot of that list. Theo is a great kid. He is social, friendly and well behaved. We have actually had strangers come up and tell us just how well behaved he is in a restaurant. Still, according to this list (and at least one "professional") he is mentally ill.

I mean, I don't wish to rationalize a need Theo might have away. This is not me wishing he did not have a condition. Whether it was a hearing problem (runs in my family) or autism, if he has it, we will deal with it. It is very frustrating when you are told "Well, if you are a good parent, you would know".

Quote from: Spike;282196Jeeze, Bill, half or more of that list seems to apply to me.

That figures.

Camarata (the Vanderbuilt expert on Autism) has pointed out that one of the chief sources of diagnoses of "high-functioning" autism (stuff on the aspergers end of the spectrum) is delayed speech, because it is one of the most obvious and undeniable things one can point to; but he argues that this by itself is NOT a good indicator of autistic diagnosis and that its the leading cause of misdiagnoses.  His position is that there is a particular set of symptoms that should NOT be classified under the autistic spectrum but that currently are mistakenly being placed there, with the main symptom being that of a "Late talker" matched with indicators of high intelligence (what some have come to call the Einstein Syndrome; though I can see how this is just a fucking invitation for disorder-seeking parents to want to label their little bundles of joy as that; "My kid is just like Einstein!!").

RPGPundit

Quote from: estar;282187Have you been to a place where they deal with autistic children. Have you watched them for a day or so. Have you seen the variety of behaviors, and the techniques used to deal with them. Have you seen a autistic child of 2, 4, or 10? Have you ANY interaction with autistic children what so ever. If not then frankly you don't know what you are talking about.

I was in junior high and high school with a kid that was very definitely (high-functioning) autistic (today they'd have said Aspergers, most likely), and was diagnosed as such (even back in the bad old days when doctors were still using leeches and talking about the humours).

I wasn't unfriendly with this kid (at least, not beyond the level at which a typical teenager is likely to be at times), he even gamed with us.  And I could clearly see elements of how he thought and acted that were clearly a product of his autism (that unfortunately gave him enormous difficulties in school, both in the educational and social aspects of things; and sadly this was back in the time when the latest pop-psych philosophy was in favour of total mainstreaming, so they basically dumped the kid into the animal pit without giving him any extra help, something that I can see in retrospect was a terrible mistake). There were also quite a few commendable things about him as a person, and a lot of times when he was just an asshole and I don't think it was due to the autism.

So I'm pretty personally aware that autism is a pretty complex issue; and that even in the case of those who are legitimately autistic (and I have no doubt this kid was), autism cannot be seen as either the cause or the excuse of all of his behaviour.
Its also me pretty suspicious of other people I've met who claimed their personal failings were due to aspergers syndrome when really their just social retards looking for a reason not to have to bathe or avoid acting like shitheads in public.

QuoteFrankly I can't really blame you for being ignorant on the issue. Because the problem behavior of a autistic child is counter intuitive to normal experience. All kids do dumb things but when you dig into it you often find an explanation behind it.

With autistic children it not the case, they get into a mode where there is no explanation for their behavior.

I agree; and I think that with a lot of the people (adults or kids) who are today self-diagnosing themselves or get mis-diagnosed by their parents/social workers/psychologists/etc as being on the "autistic spectrum", you see them take behaviour that can be explained as poor social education mingled with a voluntarily asinine personality where they use this "diagnosis" as a blank cheque to stop being dicks.

So again, I'm not saying autism isn't real, or even that high-functioning autism isn't real. I'm saying there's a shitload of people out there who don't really have autism. There's a difference.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jeff37923;281865When you were a special education teacher, did you see the official definition of various conditions (like autism) change in order to be more inclusive? Now, in your opinion, if this was done, do you think it was in order to recieve more funding for programs that helped these kids?

I saw advances in clinical understanding that created a deeper understanding of autism and autism related disorders that came under one umbrella and good physicians working under that umbrella developed tests to get very specific about the autism issues and related issues for each patient instead of a one-label-fits-all mentality.   I do not believe there was politics in the physician's decision for more inclusiveness.

However, the public education establishment did not follow the same path as the best clinicians.   Instead, I saw many schools get onboard with  the stacking of labels to justify funding.

Here's what happens in California.  I do not know how other states operate in this regard.   The CA public school system is unequipped to handle 50% of the Special Education population.   So, in CA we have "non-public" schools.   They are not charter schools, but private schools run with public school money.   Back in 1996, the state spent about $6k on a "normal" kid and $16k on a behavior disorder kid.   This is where the non-publics made their money.

So here's what happened.   No school wanted gang banger wanna-bes.   It wasn't difficult to get them diagnosed with "severe emotional disorders" and shipped off to a non-public.    Then rich parents realized that if they got their kid an ADHD diagnosis from a shrink, they could get their kid in a non-public and some high-end ones exist for Hollywood and Beverly Hills brats whose biggest disorder is that nobody ever kicked them in the ass.

Quote from: droog;282205That figures.

Don't make me come over there and drool on you!

Quote from: HinterWelt;282198Well, this was my initial concern with Theo. He qualifies for several traits on that list...so do quite a few of the kids he knows. The problem I have is that much of that list can be applied to a developing child. Let's take Theo for instance. He is behind on speaking. Is he autisitic?

One thing we learned about is that autistic symptoms are pervasive. In other words multiple behaviors taken to an extreme. If the only unusual things about Theo is that he prefers signing over speaking, and that his speech is delayed then perhaps all he needs a bit of speech therapy. In the end the only person that can make that judgment is you, and your wife.

If he is your first child then you will be plagued with a lot of doubts as you will have no benchmark to measure against. Unless if you have a close sibling with their own kids that you hang around with a lot it is hard to get a sense of what normal. For us the birth of our second son was a relief in many ways as we now saw exactly what the difference were for our situation. Doesn't mean our troubles were easier but it helped in making decisions with and about our eldest.

With my son some of his behavior was violent and destructive for no reason, plus he displayed obsessive interest in certain subject, and he was developmentally delayed. All of these were mild compared to the worst autism cases, but the fact they are were present and occurred in a variety of situation with no other reasons to account for their appearance lead to the diagnosis of autism. And not all his development problem can be attributed to autism. He has poor fine motor skills from his premature birth that is totally separate.

However as he grows older he has made progress, and what is evident is that the root of the problem is that he processes information differently. He takes medicine that helps him focus otherwise he would be overwhelmed by the stimuli he getting. One real reason we know this is a real problem is that when he is off his meds he can't do even the things he likes because he simply can't focus. It like a normal person trying to do a day's work with a headphone on blasting heavy metal 24/7.

Some of our efforts is learning how he learns and exploiting that to teach what he needs to know. Other efforts go towards him learning to adapt his way of thinking to get through a normal day. Then on top of everything he a kid and has all the concerns, and issues of regular kids. A challenge. Another way his younger brother helps us is that our eldest has a near peer to interact with. There conflict at time but also cooperation. Overall the two of them together has been a blessing.

Quote from: HinterWelt;282198Note: I am not saying anything about people with autistic children here. My issue has been with the medical profession. I also have to wonder about the parent who is not as anal compulsive as I am about knowing as much as possible about any sort of diagnosis applied to my loved ones. I could see a parent fretting over their child's welfare and readily agreeing to move forward.

Just remember you and your spouse are the final arbiters in this. The doctors are there to advise you not tell you what to do. o

From today's news:

QuoteTHE doctor who sparked the scare over the safety of the MMR vaccine for children changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism, a Sunday Times investigation has found.

Confidential medical documents and interviews with witnesses have established that Andrew Wakefield manipulated patients’ data, which triggered fears that the MMR triple vaccine to protect against measles, mumps and rubella was linked to the condition.

The research was published in February 1998 in an article in The Lancet medical journal. It claimed that the families of eight out of 12 children attending a routine clinic at the hospital had blamed MMR for their autism, and said that problems came on within days of the jab. The team also claimed to have discovered a new inflammatory bowel disease underlying the children’s conditions.

However, our investigation, confirmed by evidence presented to the General Medical Council (GMC), reveals that: In most of the 12 cases, the children’s ailments as described in The Lancet were different from their hospital and GP records. Although the research paper claimed that problems came on within days of the jab, in only one case did medical records suggest this was true, and in many of the cases medical concerns had been raised before the children were vaccinated. Hospital pathologists, looking for inflammatory bowel disease, reported in the majority of cases that the gut was normal. This was then reviewed and the Lancet paper showed them as abnormal.

Despite involving just a dozen children, the 1998 paper’s impact was extraordinary. After its publication, rates of inoculation fell from 92% to below 80%. Populations acquire “herd immunity” from measles when more than 95% of people have been vaccinated.

Last week official figures showed that 1,348 confirmed cases of measles in England and Wales were reported last year, compared with 56 in 1998. Two children have died of the disease.

With two professors, John Walker-Smith and Simon Murch, Wakefield is defending himself against allegations of serious professional misconduct brought by the GMC. The charges relate to ethical aspects of the project, not its findings. All three men deny any misconduct.

Through his lawyers, Wakefield this weekend denied the issues raised by our investigation, but declined to comment further.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;281723The other issue is self-diagnosis. We get this particularly with frequent internet users. Sitting around bored one night and surfing the net, it's easy to look down some checklist or do some online test and suddenly discover that you have manic depression, aspergers, post-traumatic stress disorder, repressed memories, are at high risk of colorectal cancer, and so on.

For sure. I'm far from the spectrum, but some online test said I was :rolleyes:

ADD, yeah, I can see that. Of course, when I grew up, we were cured of that with a trip behind the proverbial woodshed

I do agree Autism is the fad of the decade. I also believe medicine has improved so that we can help, if not fix, disorders.

I'm not a doctor, just a housewife, though. Here's a barrel of salt to take my opinion with