So I'd never been familiar with the website Something Awful before, but I've been introduced to it over the last few days after I saw that someone had posted pictures of my son there to mock.
It had apparently started when someone came to the sci-fi convention I was at and went around quietly taking pictures of the fat people, and then posted them to the Something Awful forums along with various slurs. From there it escalated and posters started pulling various pictures from the convention and posting them. The original poster pulled the thread, but it stuck around at the "Something Awful Sycophant" fan site.
I took an interest when I saw someone posted a picture of my son there, who had his picture taken with his favorite author, Tamora Pierce. Specifically, someone commented on them being in costume as Janet Reno and Elian Gonzales. (I suppose they took him to be Hispanic.) In general, there's been a ton of postings and insults, ranging from generic "blimp", "bitch", etc. to saying that someone should have her head chopped off since she was muslim.
Now, I mean -- it's a sci-fi convention. There are indeed fat people and lots of dorky people in t-shirts. I can't say I'm shocked, but the vehemence of it has surprised me. If anyone is familiar with SA, is this just par for the course?
Par for the course. It doesn't make it right, of course.
The site's saving grace, in my opinion, is its "Photoshop Friday" feature, where the users showcase various clever/amusing/weird/etc. photomanipulations. Granted I haven't logged on in over a year, but...
Sounds like yet another web manifestation of self-loathing Geeks. They don't like to admit to what they like and love so they think they have to viciously mock others that do admit to it and are open about it.
Kyle Aaron used to call the gamer version of this group Bitter Non-gamers.
- Ed C.
That's pretty rotten John. :(
I haven't spent much time on SA in quite a while. There were some pretty funny stories of dysfunctional game stores and people's own disastrous personal lives that were pretty well written and amusing. There's also some pranks forum members post that are pretty funny (spend a few months convincing the water delivery guy you're mentally unbalanced, then videotape yourself going outside dressed as a mermaid to give him a hug). And generally weird projects people take on (hey let's build a Flamethrower out of a super-soaker -- or -- let's build a potato-gun that can fire over half a mile!)
They do have a history of focusing on particular groups (eg. Furries, Scientologists) which become the focus for scorn and pranks.
They have a *massive* number of users -- and I think you have to pay to get posting privileges on the site. Despite this there are routinely people acting like idiots and getting themselves banned (paying for an account not withstanding).
It might just be a function of the larger the community (and particularly and ONLINE community) the more likely an idiot it going to say something idiotic.
I've never browsed it, but I will now. We have to be able to laugh at ourselves, 'cause other people absolutely will.
I've visited once in a while but am persistantly unable to find any reason to continue loitering. However, I am mostly familiar with the SA community (known, apparently, as Goons) and their social norms due to their presence as a collective vomitious mass within Eve Online (their corporations and alliance are... well.. the Goonswarm), and their 'poasting' style on the Eve forums.
SA has a similar level of moderation to this site, with some slight differences (I think they DO have some very explicit posting guidelines. Less restrictive than most, but explicit). You pay ten dollars, once, to be a member. Violate the posting guidelines you forfit your money. You can, however, without prejudice, sign right back up and pay the ten dollars again. As a social expirement it is quite facinating... though not being on the 'inside' to see the process of banning and paying, and not being facinated ENOUGH to track it independently, there is little I can say about what it demonstrates.
So: Yeah, its reprehensible behavior, and not really all that grounded in reality. Its Goons, what do you expect?
SA is basically an utter cesspit, always has been. Juvenile, pathetic nonsense that seems to mistake screeching "fag" for rational conversation.
It's a blight on the interwebs, and I tend to loathe it's denizens appearance anywhere else on the web, because of what expectations that leaves for their future behavior.
Quote from: J ArcaneSA is basically an utter cesspit, always has been. Juvenile, pathetic nonsense that seems to mistake screeching "fag" for rational conversation.
It's a blight on the interwebs, and I tend to loathe it's denizens appearance anywhere else on the web, because of what expectations that leaves for their future behavior.
You've grown up! I knew it! while that may all be true, seriously folks it's the intra web right? How serious can we take it? This ain't a church folks.
Plus, most fat people should be laughed at, because they're amusingly fat.
I read the thread as part of their Monday Roundup, and to be honest, although it was billed as a "sci fi" convention it sounded like (and was presented as) a bunch of fat liberal feminists whining about the fact that their inner earth-mother was still being oppressed (with an appearance by a friendly male-female-no-op transgender whatchamacallit it thrown in for fun). I didn't see one panel that was attended by the author that had flip-all to do with "sci-fi" in the entire article.
I'm sorry your son was in one of the pictures, but the point of the thread and the pics wasn't about him or his costume; one comment was made, and to be honest, since the author DID look a bit like Reno, it made me smile. Not because of your son, however. To be honest, seeing a kid at that convention really seemed a bit out of place (for a multitude of reasons), but who am I to judge?
Just a little more info about a thread nobody can apparently reference anymore. You know, for perspective and everything, since clearly nobody responding here even saw the thread.
Wow, this so goes beyond what I would have imagined. Here's the latest in the SASS discussion, posting a picture of me and my family:
QuoteQuote(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2128/2516224165_c21813e0e5.jpg)
Look at that dickless faggot next to the he/she thing and her troglodyte offspring
i want to punch that kid in the face
Sheesh!
I haven't visited SomethingAwful since I realized that the site's basic gag was to link to other sites, then send their legions of users to the site to harass and insult people, usually until they disappear from the Internet altogether.
The breaking point for me was when they went after the web site of some little girl with a horrible deformity, telling her parents that they should kill their little girl. I can't imagine what kind of shitty human being you have to be to do something like that.
It used to be funny, now it seems mostly a congregation point for asswipe sociopaths.
Quote from: jhkimWow, this so goes beyond what I would have imagined. Here's the latest in the SASS discussion, posting a picture of me and my family:
Sheesh!
Is there anything you can actually do ?
Is this an ongoing problem of the internet?
Could a lawyer make a case that the website did something egregious?
I think its pretty messed up for them to make comments like that about a family they don't know.
But again - what are your options?
What can you do?
- Ed C.
Quote from: KoltarCould a lawyer make a case that the website did something egregious?
I think its pretty messed up for them to make comments like that about a family they don't know.
But again - what are your options?
What can you do?
Well, it's not like I'm scared of these fuckers. I'm just ticked off about it. The problem is that they harrass everyone connected with me as well. For example, one poster found a picture of a black friend of ours and put it up as his user picture with the caption "100% Nigger". They've also posted insightful comments to my wife's LJ like "Ozma fat and so are you dykes suck a cock".
I mean, what the fuck?
It's one thing to laugh at fat people and lesbians and transgenders, but this is just ridiculous. Anyhow, Tempest -- whose picture was put up noted above -- had this suggestion:
QuoteI want a bunch of people to register at SASS and start posting to that thread. But not attacks. Because attacks won't do any good, not unless we can find some pictures of THEM to make fun of (which I wouldn't bother doing, anyway, because what more can you say about people with so little going on?). No, instead I think we should just start posting nothing but pictures of horses and kitties and puppies and baaaaaby animals.
And some gay porn.
That seems about as useful as any reaction I came up with. So I'm starting up with this. (If anyone wants to help, too, that'd be great.)
wow, that is some fucked up bullshit from those bitches at that sight.
i've never been there til now. five minutes of browsing was enough.
what a bunch of fucking spineless internet punks.
i really hope you can do something about this crap. especially after they hit your wife's LJ.
Quote from: I want a bunch of people to register at SASS and start posting to that thread. But not attacks. Because attacks won’t do any good, not unless we can find some pictures of THEM to make fun of (which I wouldn’t bother doing, anyway, because what more can you say about people with so little going on?). No, instead I think we should just start posting nothing but pictures of horses and kitties and puppies and baaaaaby animals.
And some gay porn.
this is fucking gold.
dave
I just can't take the internet forums seriously. It'd be like watching GI Joe for my opinions on the Military, or Global Politics. Or My Little Pony for Horse Care advice.
Quote from: Serious PaulI just can't take the internet forums seriously. It'd be like watching GI Joe for my opinions on the Military, or Global Politics. Or My Little Pony for Horse Care advice.
Or Gay Porn for sexual techniques....
If you think pr0n is anything like real life sex, then you haven't been laid. Or your sex life is way way way better than anyone here could imagine.
John, why are you spreading this shit?
Quote from: KoltarWhat can you do?
Come here and complain, apparently, to a bunch of people who never saw the original thread and can't do anything about it. But yes, its apparently gone wayyyy over the top. That said, despite all the bashing of SA, you will admit the thread is long gone from there. They did have the decency to pull it, it seems. The people carrying the torch now have all been BANNED from SA, and have their own little forum to stir up shit.
Just sayin'.
The site is called "Something Awful". What do you expect?
It's home to fuckwits living in their parents' basements.
There are some websites it's just better never to go to. stormfront.org, Something Awful, and so on. You go once, see that they're fucked-up, then never go again. Easy.
I'm sorry they mocked you, your friend, and most importantly your boy. But honestly, what can you do? Not much. I suppose you could pop in there and comment, but - shit, I don't know you, John Kim, but you seem to deserve better than to even be in the same thread as cocksmocks like that.
Quote from: droogJohn, why are you spreading this shit?
Hey does this milk smell bad to you? Here taste some! No seriously it's horrible, try it!
Quote from: WerekoalaCome here and complain, apparently, to a bunch of people who never saw the original thread and can't do anything about it. But yes, its apparently gone wayyyy over the top. That said, despite all the bashing of SA, you will admit the thread is long gone from there. They did have the decency to pull it, it seems. The people carrying the torch now have all been BANNED from SA, and have their own little forum to stir up shit.
Just sayin'.
Have they been banned? Oh, good. I hadn't followed that.
As for what to do -- well, I gave Tempest's suggestion a shot. As for why I posted here, it was something that's been on my mind for the past two days, and I thought I'd share it. That's normal for Off-Topic, isn't it?
It's normal to talk about whatever you want, sure. But if it was my wife and kid, I wouldn't be talking about it here or anywhere else. But go ahead if that's what you want.
Quote from: jhkimHave they been banned? Oh, good. I hadn't followed that.
As for what to do -- well, I gave Tempest's suggestion a shot. As for why I posted here, it was something that's been on my mind for the past two days, and I thought I'd share it. That's normal for Off-Topic, isn't it?
Well, let me rephrase - the site that is currently running with this particular torch is made up of banned users - not saying they all got banned for this particular topic, however.
And yeah, blow off some steam here - doing so there will just stir them up more. For now, as long as you and the fam enjoyed the con... that's all that matters, really.
Quote from: WerekoalaWell, let me rephrase - the site that is currently running with this particular torch is made up of banned users - not saying they all got banned for this particular topic, however.
And yeah, blow off some steam here - doing so there will just stir them up more. For now, as long as you and the fam enjoyed the con... that's all that matters, really.
Actually, I have stirred them up according to KTempest's suggestion. If they hadn't already targeted me and others, then I wouldn't be poking in there. But after they had several pages of this stuff posting about friends and family, I didn't feel like just pretending it wasn't there.
The motivation is similar to how I will sometimes post back to the Pundit here, but boy -- going there really made me feel positively rosy about the sweetness of people here. To people like Pundit and John Morrow here -- I know we disagree on lots of things, but I appreciate you guys and your willingness to discuss. (Incidentally, the SASS moderators have taken to deleting and editing my posts now.)
Quote from: jhkimgoing there really made me feel positively rosy about the sweetness of people here.
Give 4chan a try sometime, if you want to really ramp that up.
Wait, on second thought, don't do that.
Oh, going back to an earlier point. In case this wasn't clear...
Quote from: WerekoalaI read the thread as part of their Monday Roundup, and to be honest, although it was billed as a "sci fi" convention it sounded like (and was presented as) a bunch of fat liberal feminists whining about the fact that their inner earth-mother was still being oppressed (with an appearance by a friendly male-female-no-op transgender whatchamacallit it thrown in for fun). I didn't see one panel that was attended by the author that had flip-all to do with "sci-fi" in the entire article.
In case you had any illusions that the SA posters are an accurate source of information about WisCon -- well, no, they're not.
Yes, there are lots of liberals, many lesbians, and even a few transgender people there. There's also many overweight and/or dorky looking people there -- no moreso than any other SF or gaming convention in my experience, but perhaps notable because more of them are women. (I'd guess it's around 2/3 women.)
It is also the most critical and thoughtful convention I know of -- though to be fair, I haven't been to many and this is the only one I go to regularly. There are lots of panels on science fiction topics, readings from recently-released books, a few academic papers presented, and so forth. It has a primary focus on books -- but there is still a sizeable minority of TV, film, comic, and game discussion. It has 1000 attendees (registration is capped at that because that's the venue's limit), and there are typically 8-12 panels in each slot. With that many slots, there are a few purely meta or off-topic panels, but they're pretty exceptional.
Quote from: J ArcaneSA is basically an utter cesspit, always has been. Juvenile, pathetic nonsense that seems to mistake screeching "fag" for rational conversation.
It's a blight on the interwebs, and I tend to loathe it's denizens appearance anywhere else on the web, because of what expectations that leaves for their future behavior.
And right here in this post, you are using a classic SA meme ("interwebs"). :deflated: They are pretty pervasive ("all your base", "teh funny", etc. etc., and I think maybe even the cats fad - definitely the custom of using the Impact font for captioning!).
Think of SA as an in-joke that was taken to its limits and collapsed under its own weight. It started out as a site for mocking internet stupidity, but very rapidly started generating its own; abusing weird and unhealthy subcultures and developing its own - which, in the end, is not any less inbred than their targets. But the site is also a good source of absurdist humour and off the wall creativity (my favourites are the various "MSPAINT" threads where users post images entirely rendered in MS Paint), and genuinely good discussions about almost anything. Just keep in mind that it is huge, much larger than RPGNet, and parts of it are entirely unmoderated. It also attracts a specific brand of Internet retard, who have assembled into a really nasty and stupid little subculture which values abusive mocking for its own sake, even when unwarranted. Take the most extreme Tangencites, take away moderation and give them a hefty dose of encouragement / one-upmanship, and you have the shitheads who lurk in SA's darker recesses.
Basically, jhkim, my advice is that you should not react to them because they do enjoy wrestling in shit
a lot, and have the sophistication/personality of high school bullies. They are also harmless to anything but your self esteem.
You have a nice looking family!
I can understand your anger. It's frustrating because people who do stuff like that are generally physically and mentally weak. If you ever had the opportunity to confront them in person, they would probably apologize immediately and seem incredibly pathetic. It's difficult to see people like that given even the teeniest amplification of their voices by the internet.
But I think it's best that you move on. They are more equipped to fight an internet war.
Still, maybe at least save as much info on the one who said he'd like to punch your son on the off-chance that you may one day encounter his avatar again elsewhere and get a clue to his meatspace identity. By this time, your son will be a hulking teenager, full of hormonal confusion and rage. You guys can drive to his house and remind him of his post of so long ago. "Here's my son mr. keyboard courage, would you like to punch him in the face now?"
Quote from: KoltarCould a lawyer make a case that the website did something egregious?
The ability of a lawyer to do anything about it, is dependent on server location and local law. For example in germany (I study law there, so I use it as an example) any picture that is not part of a crowd (for example a concert audience) is subject to the will of those on the picture, so in germany any lawyer could shoot that down within a short time.
U.S. laws on the other hand often deemphasize many other rights when compared to free speech.
The terms of service for an ISP, Web Hosting Company, Free Message Board, Free Email (Gmail/Hotmail), and Domain Name Registrar will list the types of activities that are prohibited by users of those services. Harrassment and threats are usually on the list, and they provide contact information for reporting problems.
Quote from: jhkimWow, this so goes beyond what I would have imagined. Here's the latest in the SASS discussion, posting a picture of me and my family
John, these people are fucking assholes. Your reaction is understandable but I think the people suggesting you drop this are right. You are just prolonging this mess. You've been on the internet for a while. You know what's at work here: lack of accountability. I wish you could punch them in the face but you can't.
Still, it looks like you have a great family, while these losers jerk off alone in a basement.
Take care and be well!
I have nothing to add to the above (Consonant Dude sums it up nicely) but just want to join in the "what a bunch of wankers" chorus. To quote a meme that they no doubt originated "this is why we can't have nice things".
Ned
Smell this milk! IS it bad to you? I mean it's horrible to me...
Quote from: Serious PaulSmell this milk! IS it bad to you? I mean it's horrible to me...
No, it's
REALLY rank!! It's probably the worst thing I've ever smelled.
What do you think?
:D
I think we need to find someone else to taste it too...
I dunno.
Maybe the whole con setup was actually like leaving the milk out in the sun.
Sure, the SA guys are the dregs of society, at least they behave like it. But what´s english for "Steilvorlage"?
Let´s say the Con-Setup gave them a field day, by handing them stuff on a silver platter.
I´m also puzzled at Mr. Kim:
You seem to be someone interested in how the male/female divide influences peoples behaviour. Coming to that thread with politeness mixed with threats, and wearing an "I Heart unicorns" shirt, you should know the primitive mechanisms that feed this kind, you again were a walking target.
Again, you should know the reasons for mysogyny and manly-manlyness combined with aggressive homophobia & the mocking of the weak. So I´m pretty amazed you tried to discuss with them that way. Looks naive to me.
I think people should be able to dress the way they want and be able to ask people who mock them about it without being called naive.
And to be honest, even after quite some time on message boards the sheer hatred of SA took me by surprise.
And I call you naive for that. Maybe you are less cynical and a better human being for it. But naive nonetheless.
Listen, I´m not saying it´s bad to be innocent. But someone digging in the "gender" debate or hanging out with feminists has long, long ago lost his intellectual innocence.
That someone is Mr. Kim, and I´m amazed he still acted this naive.
The whole point in the Con was being a safe haven against society. Why should anyone wonder that the ugliest parts of society attack and mock it?
The existance of people like this is the baseline upon which feminism and the con setup were built.
So either Mr. kim is HUGELY naive, or he´s subversively trying to influence people here. So that we all are shocked and have sympathies for the poor downtrodden misunderstood people at the con.
Quote from: SaphimI think people should be able to dress the way they want and be able to ask people who mock them about it without being called naive.
And to be honest, even after quite some time on message boards the sheer hatred of SA took me by surprise.
As much as I hate to do this, I agree 100% with Settembrini.
He is correct, here in the real world if you dress like a slob you will be mocked for it, not get jobs, not be able to get into certain clubs, etc.
It may suck but it is reality
I don't think he is shocked that it happened, but the virulence and vehemence of it. I think that's because when it happens to you, it hurts and you lose some perspective. It's like getting hit in the face and losing your shit. You just react because it hurts.
For me, the less on is don't post pictures of yourself on public online locations. Or at least try to minimize them.
Yeah, the personal part IS disgusting. But see, for the misanthropes, it wasn´t personal.
There´s a lot of instances that even I myself would say someone has a "Backpfeifengesicht" (= a face that's just begging for someone to put their fist in it.)
It´s "just" hateful slur, not personal. If anyone, Mr. Kim made it personal himself. Especially with reposting it here.
So I´m torn. As a human being, he has my sympathies. But intellectually, it´s pretty naive.
I should fall silent, as this thread would be more entertaining with the MASTER posting...
Quote from: SettembriniYou seem to be someone interested in how the male/female divide influences peoples behaviour. Coming to that thread with politeness mixed with threats, and wearing an "I Heart unicorns" shirt, you should know the primitive mechanisms that feed this kind, you again were a walking target.
Again, you should know the reasons for mysogyny and manly-manlyness combined with aggressive homophobia & the mocking of the weak. So I´m pretty amazed you tried to discuss with them that way. Looks naive to me.
Eh? The shirt was something I wear pretty often and had on at the Con, before I had any idea about SA or SASS. Understand, I'm totally not interested in avoiding them mocking me. If anything, I enjoy them mocking me personally. (I just edited my Encyclopedia Dramatica picture caption from "pussy" to "gay unicorn-loving pussy", for example.)
What surprised me was the extremity of it.
Quote from: SettembriniSo either Mr. kim is HUGELY naive, or he´s subversively trying to influence people here. So that we all are shocked and have sympathies for the poor downtrodden misunderstood people at the con.
In a sense, that's true. I almost always deal with people on the net straightforwardly and relatively politely. If they act like assholes to that, then I figure that makes them look bad rather than making me look bad. Is that subversive? I'm not polite to people with naive illusions that it's going to suddenly cure all assholes and make them decent people.
Quote from: walkerpI don't think he is shocked that it happened, but the virulence and vehemence of it. I think that's because when it happens to you, it hurts and you lose some perspective. It's like getting hit in the face and losing your shit. You just react because it hurts.
For me, the less on is don't post pictures of yourself on public online locations. Or at least try to minimize them.
Yep, not posting your picture on the net is the best option. and I wouldn't really worry about twits on the internet.
Sure the guys on SA are internet tuff guys, they talk big when they have the protection of the internet, but in real life they are losers.
People like that insult others to mask their own pathetic lives.
Quote from: jhkimWhat surprised me was the extremity of it.
In a sense, that's true. I almost always deal with people on the net straightforwardly and relatively politely.
Here we go. So, if that´s any consolation to you:
You have my sympathies.
Be grateful, though, that you can listen to what some people really think. That should be educative. The internet goes both ways, you know?
I too had aimed at the severity of the outcry.
Quote from: jhkimWhat surprised me was the extremity of it.
The Internet rewards extremes by giving extremes attention. It's like a class clown in an auditorium of class clowns begging for attention, so the loudest, most extreme, and most crude clown gets the attention.
By the way, looking at that picture of your family, your shirt may say "liberal feminist" (figuratively) but your son actually looks quite conservative and macho. Short boy haircut? Check. Holding up a sword? Check. Dressed like a knight? Check. Wearing a cross on his tabard? Check. In other words, they're not even really looking all that closely at what's in the picture and they're just looking to say something to put you and your whole family down. Do yourself a favor. Ignore them.
Quote from: John MorrowBy the way, looking at that picture of your family, your shirt may say "liberal feminist" (figuratively) but your son actually looks quite conservative and macho.
Why, thanks, John! From you, I know that's the highest compliment. ;)
Quote from: jhkimWhy, thanks, John! From you, I know that's the highest compliment. ;)
I figured with all the unwarranted bashing you were getting, someone should say something nice. Hopefully I didn't get you and your wife in trouble with your feminist friends. ;)
Most of the site is a cesspit, but the Hentai Game Reviews are hilarious.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenGive 4chan a try sometime, if you want to really ramp that up.
Wait, on second thought, don't do that.
Whenever anyone thinks RPG forums are too crazy or silly or just plain stupid, (don't) take a dip in the pool of piss with the fa/tg/uys & ca/tg/irls, and definitely then (do NOT) take a plunge into the ocean of piss that is /b/. :keke: It's the Mos Eisley of the intratubes.
4chan 4evar (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2NNMHxqJp6A) & Otakon 2006 4chan Panel Opening Video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=mLjIe6kvMh0)
However there are some gaming gems, such as:
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z60/clan_mum/1198723709920.png)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z60/clan_mum/monkeighfucker.jpg)
D&D4E NERDRAGE in a nutshell: (why I don't bother discussing 4E much)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z60/clan_mum/DnD4E%20Motivational%20Posters/WeeabooFightanMagic.png)
OTOH, I had some fun using the style as the dominant personality for the alien posing as Torchwood America's computer while trying to learn humanity & escape from the BBEG in a Call of Cthulhu meets Dr. Who campaign I ran. :keke:
Quote from: John MorrowThe Internet rewards extremes by giving extremes
attention. It's like a class clown in an auditorium of class clowns begging for attention, so the loudest, most extreme, and most crude clown gets the attention.
Or as 4chan puts it, 13 year old boys. Yep, ignore them is the best response. It's trolling on 11 with the attention span of aforementioned 13 year old boys.
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z60/clan_mum/4chan-venn-diagram.png)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z60/clan_mum/1154542083478nm4.png)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z60/clan_mum/internetadvisorywarningfg2.png)
That should be more than enough of a taste without having to visit the place.
jhkim is my hero now for taking on the internets and winning with the Encyclopedia Dramatica "Gay, unicorn-loving pussy."
Way to go. Seriously.
Props also for looking better in a dress than I do. (I WON'T GO INTO IT)