Entertainment Weekly (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20036782_20037403_20037541,00.html) makes some good calls, but totally blows a few others. Go give 'em hell, nerds!
Heroes and Lost made the list only because they are current Flavors of the Month. Five, ten years from now, no one will be talking about them.
Battlestar Galactica (the recent iteration) made the list at too high of a ranking -- again the Flavor of the Month effect. I think it deserved to make the list, though.
Only Star Trek: tNG made the list, and none of the later series. Good.
Only the first two Terminator movies, and none of the later sequels. Good.
The Matrix at No. 1? Hmm...maybe. Okay.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThe Matrix at No. 1? Hmm...maybe. Okay.
!i!
"Okay", if you're some kinda mouth-breathin' goldfish-juggler!
I bet it doesn't have the only true sci-fi shows that creatively used pencil sharpeneners and iron handles (the household appliance, not the metal itself). I really can't stand those ad-whore lists, who insist on putting every single item on a page. Someone care to post the total list?
WTF!?, How can you have a top 25 and No orignal Star Trek!
Quote from: pathfinderapWTF!?, How can you have a top 25 and No orignal Star Trek!
Older than 25 years.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Older than 25 years.
I don't care, break the rules
Well...uh...see, Pathfinder, the list was for the 25 best SF films and shows of the past 25 years, as in "from 1982 until today". So...Trek...um...
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Well...uh...see, Pathfinder, the list was for the 25 best SF films and shows of the past 25 years, as in "from 1982 until today". So...Trek...um...
Look man, don't make me cry, it won't be pretty
QuoteOnly Star Trek: tNG made the list, and none of the later series. Good.
WTF kind of crack are you smoking that you'd put that above DS9?
Well, they did include Dr. Who and there were TOS movies after '82...
Edit: And yep, Wrath of Khan was actually included.
They missed Babylon 5. Babylon 5.
And Stargate: SG-1. WTF?!
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!And Stargate: SG-1. WTF?!
Dude, guilty pleasure as it once was for me, even I can admit that SG-1 really just isn't that great. It was decent for syndicated schlock in it's middle years, but it hasn't been good in a long time, what with SciFi doing it's level best to run it into the ground.
No Red Dwarf, either.
Quote from: J ArcaneDude, guilty pleasure as it once was for me, even I can admit that SG-1 really just isn't that great. It was decent for syndicated schlock in it's middle years, but it hasn't been good in a long time, what with SciFi doing it's level best to run it into the ground.
I dunno. 10 seasons long, very few bad episodes.
More'n I can say about your
X-Files.
Can't say I have too many problems with their choices, outside of The Matrix taking the top spot, but lists like these are always biased in one direction or another.
Quote from: J ArcaneWTF kind of crack are you smoking that you'd put that above DS9?
The same kind of crack that's going to make me go psychotic and bust a cap in your bitch ass, yo! Seriously, though,
DS9 was slow out of the gates, but finished well. I personally thought it told a better story than
TNG, but I can understand why they didn't choose it for the list. Hey, I think we can at least agree that leaving
Voyager and
Enterprise off the list was a step in the right direction.
Quote from: SosthenesAnd yep, Wrath of Khan was actually included.
I was going to point that out as sort of your consolation prize. If anything, I think it merited a spot higher up the list.
Oh, and Rotwang -- when I wrote "Okay" in reference to
The Matrix, I meant that it was "okay" that they put it at the top of the list, not that it was merely an "okay" movie. It was a
great movie, which, like
Highlander before it, has two straggling little dingleberries on its shiny ass that need to be cut loose and forgotten.
!i!
QuoteThe same kind of crack that's going to make me go psychotic and bust a cap in your bitch ass, yo! Seriously, though, DS9 was slow out of the gates, but finished well. I personally thought it told a better story than TNG, but I can understand why they didn't choose it for the list. Hey, I think we can at least agree that leaving Voyager and Enterprise off the list was a step in the right direction.
I tihnk we can come to some agreement then. Voyager and Enterprise are just bad TV, in addition to being bad Star Trek.
DS9 is, in my view, the absolute best of Star Trek, and the best TV of the lot, really. Great acting, great characters, great stories. It had a very different structure and focus than the rest of the franchise, being as it was, so focused on the people over the monster/spatial anomaly of the week.
TNG had good points, to be sure, and definitely has more visibility with the general public. But by and large as quality of TV, it's really only held up primarily by the strength of Patrick Stewart. Brent Spiner's a fun actor, and Data had more personality than most of the human cast, but at the same time his writing was often outright atrocious and cheesy in the extreme.
I like the show, but it should definitely be taking second place to DS9.
First, Starship Troopers 90210
is on the list.
Then...
Quote from: SosthenesNo Red Dwarf, either.
Nor B5
Nor Farscape.
This list is dead to me.
:talktothehand:
Quote from: Caesar SlaadFirst, Starship Troopers 90210 is on the list.
I don't think it deserves to be on a 'Top 25' list, but I agree with their assesment of it as a sly piece of satirical anti-propaganda.
Then again I haven't read the book, and a lot of the arguments I've seen seem to be about the difficult relationship the film has with it.
No Farscape means this list isn't even worthy of consideration.
No 1 American/British SF Movie - Bladerunner
No 1 American/ British SF TV Show - Saphire & Steel
Couldn't be bothered to read the list, but I'm sure these two are the number ones.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: Caesar SlaadFirst, Starship Troopers 90210 is on the list.
Oh, oh! That's right. I totally meant to hash on
Starship Supermodels. Blech.
!i!
Quote from: RedFoxNo Farscape means this list isn't even worthy of consideration.
Whoo, I'm not the only Claudia Black fanboy ;)
Quote from: RedFoxNo Farscape means this list isn't even worthy of consideration.
Thats true
Quote from: JongWKThey missed Babylon 5. Babylon 5.
And what the fuck is
V doing on the list? Or
Starship Troopers?
Why the fuck didn't they mention the Sci-Fi Channel version of
Dune? Or the best dinosaur killing comet movie of all,
Deep Impact?
Gah, swine wrote this list...
Quote from: DrewThen again I haven't read the book, and a lot of the arguments I've seen seem to be about the difficult relationship the film has with it.
The film and the book share the same name and that's the only relationship between the two.
Quote from: jeff37923The film and the book share the same name and that's the only relationship between the two.
Oh it shares a relationship with the book, just not the relationship fans of the book expect.
It's a parody. Verhoeven hated Heinlein's politics, and the movie is more of a piss take than an adaptation.
I think it's hilarious, and that people just don't "get" the film, because they're expecting it to be something it's not.
Well, if you call the movie "Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers" but then deviate from the book so much that almost nothing remains, people have the right to be disappointed.
I wasn't actually expecting a true adaption after hearing who directed it. I _was_ surprised that there's no rape scene in it.
Quote from: J ArcaneIt's a parody. Verhoeven hated Heinlein's politics, and the movie is more of a piss take than an adaptation.
I never really considered it as a parody, but I can understand it as that. It doesn't make me like the movie any more and actually makes me like Verhoeven less now. It was easier to be kinder in thought when I believed he was just inept.
(Yes, I'm a Heinlein fan,
Have Space Suit Will Travel was the first Science Fiction book I ever read.)
Quote from: SosthenesWell, if you call the movie "Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers" but then deviate from the book so much that almost nothing remains, people have the right to be disappointed.
I wasn't actually expecting a true adaption after hearing who directed it. I _was_ surprised that there's no rape scene in it.
My copy of the DVD just says "STARSHIP TROOPERS" on the cover , NOT "Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers". I'm one of the odd ones that like BOTH the book and the movie.
Voerhoven has said in interviews and behind-the-scenes commentary that the reason everyone looks like a "supermodel" in the movie is because they made it to resemble a recruiting film that the Federation might make. That government wouldn't put unattractive people in there to represent their troopers.
- Ed C.
Quote from: KoltarI'm one of the odd ones that like BOTH the book and the movie.
BROTHER!I love the movie. The book is quality reading.
Reading down the list, it's hard to form an opinion about it. I don't like Firefly, but I like Starship Troopers. Quantum Leap was something I watched as a kid, and I never liked it or disliked it. The only jumpsuits-in-space show I can take seriously is the new BSG, which knocks out most anything where characters say "Captain!"
I
could complain about Predator's absence or that they completely ignored the gifts that anime has given SF over the years (Gainax's Royal Space Force and Gunbuster Over the Top, Makoto Shinkai's Voices of a Distant Star and The Place Promised in our Early Years, to name a handful.)
In fact, Voices of Distant Star is a damn
marvel of modern creativity. It's a CG anime made entirely by one man on his Macintosh, with voice acting by himself and his girlfriend. It has some pretty naked swipes from things like Ender's Game (child soldiers, alien invasion), but the center of the plot is beautifully original: the characters, separated when the space war begins, communicate entirely by text message.
Shinkai's central talent is the ability to raise a sense of longing in the audience. When you see one of his movies, the melancholy becomes almost physical.
Quote from: SosthenesI bet it doesn't have the only true sci-fi shows that creatively used pencil sharpeneners and iron handles (the household appliance, not the metal itself). I really can't stand those ad-whore lists, who insist on putting every single item on a page. Someone care to post the total list?
25 V
24 Galaxy Quest
23 Dr Who
22 Quantum Leap
21 Futurama
20 Star Wars Clone Wars (Cartoon)
19 Starship Troopers
18 Heros
17 Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind
16 Total Recall
15 Firefly/Serenity
14 Children of Men
13 Terminator (1 and 2)
12 Back to the Future
11 Lost
10 The Thing
9 Aliens
8 Star Trek the next generation
7 ET
6 Brazil
5 Star Trek 2 Wrath of Khan
4 X-Files
3 Blade Runner
2 Battlestar Galactica (The new one)
1 Matrix
My brother appeared on Children of men, some scenes were filmed here in Montevideo.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I dunno. 10 seasons long, very few bad episodes.
More'n I can say about your X-Files.
Quite.
Star Trek original Series
Stargate
Bablyon 5
Saphire and Steel
Space 1999 season one, but not thereafter
Blake's Seven
I'm running low now.
Futurama should be way further up.
Blade Runner should be dropped (haircuts).
Also, Gattaca and Riddick.
Oh, and Ghosts of Mars.
For me the list starts strong but goes off the rails:
25 V--didn't watch it, can't judge
24 Galaxy Quest--didn't watch it, can't judge...but I'm suspicious
23 Dr Who--only saw a couple episodes, can't judge (ducks hurled garbage)
22 Quantum Leap--only saw a couple episodes, can't judge (but from roughly that era, Sliders caught more of my attention)
21 Futurama--big fan, good call
20 Star Wars Clone Wars (Cartoon)--never saw it, can't judge
19 Starship Troopers--good call; liked the book, like the movie, I don't take it as a pure repudiation of the book's politics, more as a stark questioning. A very rich film, and presciently timely.
18 Heros--never saw it, can't judge.
17 Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind--great movie, but where's 12 Monkeys?
16 Total Recall--Arnold's best
15 Firefly/Serenity--saw one episode, wasn't crazy about it, but not enough to really judge
14 Children of Men--never saw it, can't judge
13 Terminator (1 and 2)--can't argue with that
12 Back to the Future--borderline classic
11 Lost--haven't seen it, can't judge
10 The Thing--possibly the best other than the unjustly absent 12 Monkeys
9 Aliens--another fine film
8 Star Trek the next generation--the first bad call. Mediocre science fiction, bad writing & plotting, Mary Sues right & left.
7 ET--can't complain. I'm Elliot.
6 Brazil--every Gilliam is golden (well, except for Jabberwocky), and this is SF, so...yes.
5 Star Trek 2 Wrath of Khan--I'm one of the few who preferred the first movie, but it didn't make the chronological cutoff.
4 X-Files--barely watched it, had its moments.
3 Blade Runner--good call.
2 Battlestar Galactica (The new one)--saw one episode, felt kind of meh-ish, but not enough to judge.
1 Matrix--the list was flagging, here it collapses in front of the finish line. Somewhat like the movie itself, which promises far more than it ultimately delivers. (Once the big secret is revealed, it's all downhill.)
Other omissions: Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, The Fly (yes, it's both SF & horror), Robocop, Pi, and the TV version of Aeon Flux. Outland just barely misses the chronological cutoff.
And if we go outside of American movies, especially if we include anime, well: Macross, Macross 2, Macross Zero, Ghost in the Shell, Wings of Honneamise, Akira, Delicatessen, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.
They published a second list, with the shows and movies people said they'd missed. B5, Farscape, etc...
Quote from: KoltarMy copy of the DVD just says "STARSHIP TROOPERS" on the cover , NOT "Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers". I'm one of the odd ones that like BOTH the book and the movie.
Voerhoven has said in interviews and behind-the-scenes commentary that the reason everyone looks like a "supermodel" in the movie is because they made it to resemble a recruiting film that the Federation might make. That government wouldn't put unattractive people in there to represent their troopers.
- Ed C.
I also like both, although, I have some serious issues with the nature of the book's message and the target audiance (teen boys approaching enlistment age).
No B5? That automatically discredits this list.
what a crap list.
Quote from: David RNo 1 American/British SF Movie - Bladerunner
No 1 American/ British SF TV Show - Saphire & Steel
Couldn't be bothered to read the list, but I'm sure these two are the number ones.
Regards,
David R
The author of the list has probably never seen Sapphire and Steel, and would probably just get confused most of the episodes and especially the final episode.