Quote from: Madprofessor;997900So I'm one of those GMs who never managed to get a GURPS game off the ground because of the overwhelming number of options.  I love to rules tinker, but I guess I don't like to be told exactly how to rules tinker (and that this adjustment will be 75% of 13 points or whatever).  I like TFT, and I like a lot of GURPS' conceits, like a bit of "realism," some grit and human level characters, the base 3d6 mechanics, etc.  I like the idea of GURPS, so this might be a great way for me to give it a go.  A couple of questions: is it fully 4th ed. compatible? How deep do they go into combat and combat options? Is it easy enough to scale back those 250 pt character templates?  Do they use the core magic system?  How complete is the bestiary?

Yes it is GURPS 4e just implemented as a specific RPG rather than a toolkit. As far as complexity it is moderately so, equivalent to Runequest 6 in what it covers and level of detail. Including monsters.

As far as templates they can be cut down there are some regular DF PDFs that help like the lenses in DF3 The next level but more helpful are the 125 and 62 pet templates in DF Henchmen.

Quote from: Dumarest;997901BODY and STUN I always thought were good in theory especially for replicating super hero comic books where, say, Spider-Man will get knocked out and get back in the fight a little while later none the worse for wear, but tracking BODY and STUN plus whether damage exceeded CON and caused Stun (not STUN) and how much END is spent and recovered just made it too much bookkeeping for me to maintain interest in Hero. And I found players would either forget legitimately or disingenuously to keep track of their END and such.

In non-supers HERO, we generally ignored END as other than a few exceptions it rarely matters in heroic games unless players buy back End thinking the GM wouldn't call them on it.

I never found tracking separate body and stun to be much of an issue, as I liked the detail it added. Like giving players a reason to take a pause (extra recovery) when stun gets low vs attack attack attack or flee. Similarly I like the con stun as it makes taking one big hit worse than taking half a dozen paper cuts.
The only time stun loss greatly outweighed body tended to be from heavily armored characters taking blows to the head, or normal attacks* from surprise (*as opposed to killing attacks). Again I liked the added detail and options. It made heavily armored characters a little less scary, but still formidable. It also made a knock on the head with a sap or similar less than lethal weapon practical for abducting characters without taking them out of the game for months as they healed.

Of course appropriate level of detail is a highly subjective value.

Check out Dragonquest and original Chivalry and Sorcery for old takes on the whole stun/body damage duality.

Quote from: Toadmaster;998539In non-supers HERO, we generally ignored END as other than a few exceptions it rarely matters in heroic games unless players buy back End thinking the GM wouldn't call them on it.

I never found tracking separate body and stun to be much of an issue, as I liked the detail it added. Like giving players a reason to take a pause (extra recovery) when stun gets low vs attack attack attack or flee. Similarly I like the con stun as it makes taking one big hit worse than taking half a dozen paper cuts.
The only time stun loss greatly outweighed body tended to be from heavily armored characters taking blows to the head, or normal attacks* from surprise (*as opposed to killing attacks). Again I liked the added detail and options. It made heavily armored characters a little less scary, but still formidable. It also made a knock on the head with a sap or similar less than lethal weapon practical for abducting characters without taking them out of the game for months as they healed.

Of course appropriate level of detail is a highly subjective value.

I used to be okay with it but since my players were lazy I ended up having to keep track of everything myself. That's the main reason I'm burned out on it. I'd be okay as a player keeping track of only my own current status.

Quote from: Dumarest;998559I used to be okay with it but since my players were lazy I ended up having to keep track of everything myself. That's the main reason I'm burned out on it. I'd be okay as a player keeping track of only my own current status.

Yep definitely requires players who can be trusted to keep track or not outright cheat when there are more moving parts. Also adds tactical elements that can greatly hinder the players if they don't pay attention to those aspects. HERO can be a heavy GM load with good players who know the rules.