If you strictly enforce encumbrance rules and only give them experience for the loot they actually bring home from the dungeon that can have a dampening effect on leveling. Or else you see strings of pack mules and treasure bearers...

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;996003I thought older editions of D&D used gold/treasure for experience? Looks like some of them did based on the replies.

75% of experience was from treasure (at 1gp=1xp), 25% was through combat in AD&D and OD&D if I recall correctly.

Yes, it was used, but far from exclusively.

QuoteMaybe it would make sense to just put the exact (roughly) amount of gold that is worth the experience. So if a monster normally gives 2000xp, then spread 2000xp worth of gold around. And do that for every monster, or enough.

What also played into this was the value of treasure. The weight of it is significant in that you have to make a choice between carrying only some of the high value treasure out, of burden yourself with the high and low value treasure. It's hard to run carrying those sacks of copper coins and brass candelabras back to the tavern. So, if there was 10K xp to be gained in an adventure, 2,500 came from combat, 7,500 came from treasure, and another 7,500 was present in low value treasure. If they take everything, then the party is too slow to avoid all of the monsters. They have to be choosy.

Unless they're clever. Then, the extra xp from the treasure is justly earned.

Quote from: EOTB;996009I have over 20K in treasure value on the first level of my current dungeon.  The minority of that is coin.  There's a lot of valuable stuff though.

PCs usually get around 5X the XP from treasure (of all sorts) then they do monster XP.  Selling a magic item is an XP mother lode, and it's often better to get to 2nd level than it is to be 1st level with a magic sword.

How would selling a magic item work? Wouldn't that give you a huge pile of gold? Would you need to spend THAT gold to get experience? Or would you get experience just from selling the item? But then you have all this gold, and gold is experience too... so it's like getting 2x the experience...

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;996036How would selling a magic item work? Wouldn't that give you a huge pile of gold? Would you need to spend THAT gold to get experience? Or would you get experience just from selling the item? But then you have all this gold, and gold is experience too... so it's like getting 2x the experience...

I can't speak for true old school stuff, but in ACKS any magic item that you use in the adventure in which you acquire it can't convert into XP. You can still sell it for gold, but only if you can find a buyer (ACKS also diminishes the secondary market value of "found" magic items, kind of like used cars).

So it's either a piece of equipment OR relevant XP, not both. Mind, it's a pretty big deal either way.

Actually, ACKS is what eventually replaced my 5th ed games, word of warning. In addition to putting a lot of thought into the GP=XP (they have a demographics section of national wealth VS character level which is nothing short of genius), they also have a lot of late-game sinks for all that wealth (castles and thieves guilds and magic items and and....)

The watchword for when to grant XP is also "when the wealth is brought out from the wilderness/dungeon back to civilization" which means that, as other have mentioned, transportation of the wealth is an element of the adventure. This is a somewhat metagame-y mechanic, but it makes for a great play experience.

I see, then I should check out ACKS at some point for inspiration.

So you don't actually need to spend your treasure? Just bring it to town and then that's that?

In general, yes. Once you hauled the treasure back to Civilization you "won", and the xp was yours.

Then, you spent it.

Does this mean some players (higher level or not) could give ALL the gold they find to one player with them to level him faster?

the habit in my club was, you can either keep the magic item to use, or cash the magic item in for cash or cash the magic item in for experience but you can only do one of those things.  So also with cash--you can use the cash for upkeep or equipment, or bank the cash or swap it for xp.  But only one of those things.

So, let's suppose that one member of the party dry-gulches Fred the Goblin when he is in the stall of the gentleman's room, and the only pity is that he is awake.  Fred is worth 50 xp, if we are being charitable, and assume it was some sort of fair fight.  Fred also has 4 GP.  So, if the player swaps the cash for xp, then Fred is worth 54 xp.  Id two of the party collaborated on this, then the easiest way to proceed is to say each gets 27 though there are probably more complicated ways to do that.

Yes, OD&D gave you experience for monsters, but it was chump change compared to treasure.  Then dolts took out the "XP for Gold" without adjusting XP for other things and wondered why the game was a bloodbath.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;995904What I noticed though was that you would need a fuck ton of gold to level up. In 5e, it takes just 300 experience to level up, which is 1-2 sessions. But for a party of 5 players to level up using gold, they need a whopping 1500 gp. Where are they going to find that at level 1?

Level up in 1-2 sessions? :eek:

It usually took 3-5 sessions per level up to about level 4.  After that it took 6-8 sessions till name level, assuming you were doing heavy treasure hunting.  Not everything we did was for XP, by a long shot.

Once you hit name level, things slowed to a crawl.  This was on purpose.

It took me not quite a year to hit Level 9 with Gronan, and I played a LOT.

Level 1 to 2 in 5e takes 1-2 sessions. Level 2-3 takes 2-3 sessions. Level 3-4 might take 6, and 4-5 is a big jump, probably taking like 9.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;996081Level 1 to 2 in 5e takes 1-2 sessions. Level 2-3 takes 2-3 sessions. Level 3-4 might take 6, and 4-5 is a big jump, probably taking like 9.

Is that using gp=XP? 5e DMG says 1 session to 2nd, 1 session to 3rd, then 2-3 sessions per level. I find in practice using RAW XP it's a bit slower. Highest PC IMC reached 17th in 58 sessions so 3.625 per level up.

No, it's just regular experience gain I noticed from running 5e games.

Though my own games tend to be much, much, slower. Players have been level 5 for like a year.

in the final analysis you as the GM can run the game as you see fit, including the pacing of leveling up.  If it is too fast or too slow for your tastes and the game you want to run, you can and should adjust it accordingly.  For something like experience, though, my inclination would be to discuss it with the players first thouroughly, as in the absence of explanation they will expect the rules as written.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;996036How would selling a magic item work? Wouldn't that give you a huge pile of gold? Would you need to spend THAT gold to get experience? Or would you get experience just from selling the item? But then you have all this gold, and gold is experience too... so it's like getting 2x the experience...

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;996058So you don't actually need to spend your treasure? Just bring it to town and then that's that?

Yeah, you don't need to spend it, you need to have kept it in your possession until reaching civilization/stronghold.  Since most magic items are sold in these areas, it's pretty much a fait accompli at that point.

As mentioned, you can't sell items you've used for XP (but you get a lesser amount of XP for magical items you use).  So if you use an item during the adventure you find it, selling it later might give you gold but not XP for that gold.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;996066Does this mean some players (higher level or not) could give ALL the gold they find to one player with them to level him faster?

The smart ones do.  I think it's wisest to level the clerics/druids first, then thieves, then M-Us, then fighters; always keeping an eye on whether or not XP would be wasted in those early levels by giving it to someone who would be unable to use/keep it.  This solves a lot of issues presuming everyone is mature and cooperative - players can reward good play among themselves, and if they see someone who would be a handful of points shy of leveling with an otherwise equal split, they can adjust things to the party's best benefit.  

A lot of DMs have a conceptual issue with not being in charge of all aspects of XP.  but (at least in 1E) how treasure (and treasure XP) was divided was advised to leave up to the players.  

Quote from: DMG pg. 85Division of Experience Points:

How treasure is divided is actually in the realm of player decision. Experience
points (x.p.) for slain monsters, however, is strictly your prerogative.

Other pertinent quotes to treasure and XP generally:

Quote from: DMG pg. 85EXPERIENCE VALUE OF TREASURE TAKEN

Gold Pieces: Convert all metal and gems and jewelry to a total value in
gold pieces. If the relative value of the monster(s) or guardian device
fought equals or exceeds that of the party which took the treasure, experience
is awarded on a 1 for 1 basis. If the guardian(s) was relatively
weaker, award experience on a 5 g.p. to 4 X.P., 3 to 2, 2 to 1, 3 to 1, or even
4 or more to 1 basis according to the relative strengths. For example, if a
10th level magic-user takes 1,000 g.p. from 10 kobolds, the relative
strengths are about 20 to 1 in favor of the magic-user. (Such strength
comparisons are subjective and must be based upon the degree of
challenge the Dungeon Master had the monster(s) pose the treasure
taker.)

Treasure must be physically taken out of the dungeon or lair and turned
into a transportable medium or stored in the player's stronghold to be
counted for experience points.

All items (including magic) or creatures sold for gold pieces prior to the
awarding of experience points for an adventure must be considered as
treasure taken, and the gold pieces received for the sale add to the total
treasure taken. (Those magic items not sold gain only a relatively small
amount of experience points, for their value is in their usage.)