Quote from: Simlasa;976525My question was aimed more at how much in-game time cult affairs took up... as opposed to being something taken care of during hand-waved 'down time' between sessions.
It seems like it really depends on who is playing it... rather than Runequest cults intentionally/specifically generating mission-based play or something. Which is the same impression I get from Mythras and lots of other games with well defined factions/settings.

Starting from Initiate a cult member must 1) uphold the cult beliefs, likes and dislikes and 2) do active services for the clan. The former incentivizes the character to emulate his/her patron god on a personal level (and be punished if not, by losing POW or having Divine Intervention negated later), while the later is a prompt to intertwine the character life with the cult agenda (AKA adventures and missions given by priests). Then at Rune Lord and Priest level it's assumed the character will pursue the interest of the cult at all times, making it a central mover and shaker for it's community. Both the cult sourcebooks (Cults of Prax, Cults of Terror) and scenarios sourcebooks (Griffin Mountain, Pavis & Big Rubble, etc) give support for the GM to create this framework.

Now, nothing prevents a group from ignoring all the cult part and playing it like a low-level D&D, and that's cool too. But the goal of mastering the runes through cult ascension is stated clearly in the book, both in plain text (RQ2 pg 54 "Rune Cults" and the object of Runequest) and through actual gaming mechanisms.

Quote from: CRKruegerother than a more strictly defined hierarchy for casters, etc, my players aren't doing anything all that different than they did in AD&D or even Shadowrun when it comes to interacting with the social structures of the setting.

Going by memory here, but as Voros said above, the D&D framework for this always felt pretty vague to me and more explicitely peripheral to it's core gameplay, and while I remember Shadowrun having a very rich scenario, it's instructed modus operandi was "accept mission from Mr. J > do it > [optional] get screwed by Mr J", with little support to extend this loop beyond and provide opportunities for players to be movers and shakers in the scenario structure. I think later games built upon this later (see Blades in the Dark) but I don't remember this being a core assumption of Shadowrun at all.

Quote from: Itachi;976629it's instructed modus operandi was "accept mission from Mr. J > do it > [optional] get screwed by Mr J"

...and D&D was only about "kill things and take their stuff...yeah.  That's what I mean by a good GM doing his job and running a good World in Motion setting.

Quote from: Itachi;976629I think later games built upon this later (see Blades in the Dark) but I don't remember this being a core assumption of Shadowrun at all.

Then you never had a street samurai doing more and more jobs to get better offers from the Yamatetsu Johnson so that they could get in good with the corp because they were the only ones who had a Delta Clinic in Seattle...or insert megacorp, nation, immortal power faction and desired thing you want or need from that entity here.  Heroquesting?...you ever hear of Harlequin's Back?

Now the one setting structure that is different in RQ is that it does assume that given enough time and proper action and play, that a PC can attain the very highest levels of the Cult.   Possible to do in Greyhawk AD&D say using nothing but the rules in the books and a good GM, not really possible in Shadowrun.  Sure you could become the right hand of Damien Knight in his shadow war against the Insect Spirits or get tapped by Harlequin if he decides to resurrect the Knights of the Crying Spire, but you're not an immortal elf from Earthdawn, a great dragon or the CEO of Renraku.  As far as moving to the very top of the structure, Shadowrun is probably one of the settings in which that is least likely to happen.  But...show me the RQ campaign where a player actually gets to be the High Shaman of Orlanth Thunderous without a serious fast forward and I'll show you a Greyhawk campaign where someone joined the Circle of Eight, or a WFRP campaign where a starting noble eventually became an elector count.  It happens...once in a blue moon full eclipse...but it does happen, and not really in Shadowrun.

Claiming Shadowrun is just 'runs though is an astoundingly close-minded reading of the setting however.  Get a copy of the AD&D1 DMG and pretend Stafford wrote it after doing some peyote and reading a thesaurus, it might change your ideas about what D&D can be too.

Again, don't get me wrong, the Cult rules are great, and can be used in a wide variety of settings to great use, and I admit, they were integrated with the setting of Glorantha with an astonishing level of worldbuilding detail.

However, I contest the idea that the "Glorantha Cycle" in that linked essay is anything unique to either RQ2 or Glorantha, it merely describes a system of mutual benefit and feedback between PC goals, PC action, PC advancement, and PC connection to the setting that's part and parcel of a good World in Motion setting.  I think most people probably focus on the Runes as the "unique" aspect, but really that Cult Cycle comes from the scarcity of the Runes, not the Runes themselves.  All you need is to not have unrestricted advancement and you set up the core foundations of the cycle.

The RuneQuest systems do make it more overt, Lord Vreeg's Guildschool system does something similar.  But, many games have rules for scarcity, training, etc that just get handwaved...and of course nothing stops a GM from handwving cult restrictions either.

Quote from: CRKrueger;976635...and D&D was only about "kill things and take their stuff...yeah.  That's what I mean by a good GM doing his job and running a good World in Motion setting.

Then you never had a street samurai doing more and more jobs to get better offers from the Yamatetsu Johnson so that they could get in good with the corp because they were the only ones who had a Delta Clinic in Seattle...or insert megacorp, nation, immortal power faction and desired thing you want or need from that entity here.  Heroquesting?...you ever hear of Harlequin's Back?

Now the one setting structure that is different in RQ is that it does assume that given enough time and proper action and play, that a PC can attain the very highest levels of the Cult.   Possible to do in Greyhawk AD&D say using nothing but the rules in the books and a good GM, not really possible in Shadowrun.  Sure you could become the right hand of Damien Knight in his shadow war against the Insect Spirits or get tapped by Harlequin if he decides to resurrect the Knights of the Crying Spire, but you're not an immortal elf from Earthdawn, a great dragon or the CEO of Renraku.  As far as moving to the very top of the structure, Shadowrun is probably one of the settings in which that is least likely to happen.  But...show me the RQ campaign where a player actually gets to be the High Shaman of Orlanth Thunderous without a serious fast forward and I'll show you a Greyhawk campaign where someone joined the Circle of Eight, or a WFRP campaign where a starting noble eventually became an elector count.  It happens...once in a blue moon full eclipse...but it does happen, and not really in Shadowrun.

Claiming Shadowrun is just 'runs though is an astoundingly close-minded reading of the setting however.  Get a copy of the AD&D1 DMG and pretend Stafford wrote it after doing some peyote and reading a thesaurus, it might change your ideas about what D&D can be too.

Thanks for making me rethink cults and then frame Corps as cults, then start viewing shadowrunners as cultists, then put in reputation with the corp as a mechanism to move up the cult ladder, then view access to higher grade cyber ware as Gifts from the cult, and realize that belonging to multiple cults is going to be similar to working for multiple corps and your loyalties and agendas are going to be conflicted. Completely changed how I am thinking about things, and it is going to allow me to use cults where my players wouldn't normally think about them, and probably wouldn't care, but now they will. Damn, nicely done.

I would argue that those figures, save maybe the CEO, are functionally gods, and outside of the cult's power structure. I won't argue too much about how unattainable they are, but I think that it's probably doable in some sense. Might just require achieving the highest levels of Employees of Renraku before you can join up with a select cadre that is less of a cult and more of a different game all together.

On a related note (community and heroes), Saga Thing Podcast had an interesting observation that most. Oder heroes exist without a social network, and often explicitly lose that social network. In other times and cultures (in this case, early Iceland) heroes existed very much within the context of a society with strong social links that drove many behaviors. Makes me think that setting up cults for the gothi of medieval Iceland might be interesting.

@CRKrueger, yeah I agree an experienced GM and willing group can infuse this kind of aspect in most rpgs, specially ones with such rich settings as Shadowrun. Like you said before, perhaps the "how" of Runequest is what is really important here, since it does it in a way that's practical and more or less accurate from a social stanpoint/"verossimile" as you put it.

Quote from: Raleel;976645On a related note (community and heroes), Saga Thing Podcast had an interesting observation that most. Oder heroes exist without a social network, and often explicitly lose that social network. In other times and cultures (in this case, early Iceland) heroes existed very much within the context of a society with strong social links that drove many behaviors. Makes me think that setting up cults for the gothi of medieval Iceland might be interesting.

Bingo. "Heroes in a social network" resumes nicely this aspect in contrast to "heroes in a vaccum" games. Other interesting takes on this besides RQ are Sagas of the Icelanders RPG and Beyond the Wall. The former is all about survival conforming to social expectations, and the latter while more simple keeps community central to the game.

Quote from: Baulderstone;975404Both games have percentile skill systems, but the skill levels and advancement are so different that it has never felt derivative of RQ to me. I've never owned Maelstrom, so I can't weigh in on that one.

You should check it out. It's awesome.

Quote from: RPGPundit;977242You should check it out. It's awesome.

I'll keep a look out for it.

To me, it's a nice little game in the original edition. Was there a lot added in the revised version that was released a few years ago, or am I just forgetting the awesome?

IMO, quite a bit was added in the revised edition, and it was for the better.

As for RQ, there was nothing as such wrong with the system; but I never liked Glorantha as a setting.

Quote from: RPGPundit;978032As for RQ, there was nothing as such wrong with the system; but I never liked Glorantha as a setting.

Me neither. If I ever play Runequest again, I'll be digging out my Games Workshop edition and Vikings book. Is that 3rd? Free of Glorantha, whichever edition it was.

For all the bizarreness of Glorantha, I find it's "myth is real" theme pretty cool, and somewhat unique among fantasy settings.

Quote from: Itachi;978815For all the bizarreness of Glorantha, I find it's "myth is real" theme pretty cool, and somewhat unique among fantasy settings.

I thought all fantasy settings were working the theme of "myth is real"?

Quote from: Dumarest;978818I thought all fantasy settings were working the theme of "myth is real"?

Not that many actually have flat worlds with sky bowls and non-linear time.

And if you really wanna get rid of the disease plaguing your village you don't go for medicines, oh no, you give a beating in Malia the goddess of disease.

Of course, for that to work you must unite your fellow adventurers and go out in a quest to find the stories related to the myth that allows that. Hmmm, maybe that neighbouring village whose patron deity is a healer knows something about it? We should start there.