Quote from: Biscuitician;973768That said, I've never been 100% convinced that playing a typical starfleet crew (which this seems to be) really works. There's a lot of crew spaces to fill for one thing so you'll need a half decent sized group. Plus someone has to be captain and boss everyone else around - or the GM plays the captain and bosses everyone else around.

I have found Star Trek games work best when each player controls more than one character (although usually not at the same time). I try to break down the primary characters based on who tends to be involved in shipboard action (helmsman, navigator, engineer, communications officer) and who tends to be planetside (captain, science officer, medical officer, security chief). Obviously the "planetside" characters also have opportunities aboard the ship as well, but this is the general breakdown and allows everyone to have something to do at all times; it also supports A-plot and B-plot as often occurred on the show. That is, Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and some security guys are on the planet dealing with whatever it is; meanwhile aboard the Enterprise Scotty takes command and the bridge crew deals with the intruder/ionic storm/mysterious energy sucking creatures.

As for the "bossing around" issue, I've never had that problem because I wouldn't play Star Trek with players who don't understand that the captain has final say except on medical matters. In fact, that is a player issue, not a game issue, as I expect you'd have the same problem in any party-oriented game where someone will be more assertive and stubborn about getting his way. Generally that would be the player who isn't invited back next time.

Quote from: RPGPundit;972621So, we often hear gamers complain that "product (line) X is too expensive!", almost as often as we hear publishers or game designers complain that RPG-gamers are too cheap.

But are there certain books that you think are a crazy value for the money? Where either because of sheer amount of content, or quality of content, their sale price is insanely good?

Which books are those, and why do you think they're such a good value?

Basically, all of the Vajra Enterprises books, but especially Fates Worse Than Death;).

Quote from: Dumarest;973763Party of one, your table is ready.

I've been watching Enterprise, having missed it the first time around, and the more I watch, the more I am convinced it was actually meant to be a parody of Star Trek, along the lines of GalaxyQuest. Only official

The Pathfinder RPG.  A full colour 576 page, hardcover book for $50?  That's a spectacular deal!

Quote from: JeremyR;973831I've been watching Enterprise, having missed it the first time around, and the more I watch, the more I am convinced it was actually meant to be a parody of Star Trek, along the lines of GalaxyQuest. Only official

Some channel was rerunning it recently, I don't know why, and I took another look, again I don't know why, and it's just not good in any respect. I mean, I like Scott Bakula, I saw him perform in a musical once, and Jolene Blalock has a body that won't stop, but I can't even watch more than a couple of minutes before I have to change the channel. The one I just looked at had a Klingon on Earth in whatever century, way before Earth ever encountered Klingons, hanging out in a grain elevator and blowing up some other aliens who were never on Earth in that era, and then getting shot by a farmer. Even the special effects were bad.

Another one that came to mind would be Delving Deeper (by the gods, that name bugs me) and White Box : Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game.  Both are clones of OD&D (DD more OD&D WH:FMAG more Swords & Wiz) that are sold at cost, or very close to it.  Think the printed rules in both cases are under $5.  If you are patient, you can get a free shipping coupon from Lulu.

*edit- WB:FMAG is under $7 on amazon.

Basically every RPG book by German publisher Pegasus.
Examples:

Cthulhu 7th Edition 19.95 €
Hardcover 430 pages full color

7th Sea 2nd Edition 19.95 €
Hardcover 314 pages full color

Shadowrun 5th Edition 19.95 €
Hardcover 498 pages full color

Shadowrun 5th Edition 9.95 €
Softcover 489 pages full color

All prices including tax. And this is not an Amazon deal - book prices in Germany are fixed.

I have issues when it comes to PDF pricing.  It's really worth nothing more than what the Author/Creator thinks it's worth.  Other than time and effort, which are ephemeral, there's no other real costs typically associated with it.

But a hard bound book, of any stripe, that has costs that the author/company often has to pay to put the product out there.  I dunno.

A PDF is real worth nothing more than the purchaser is willing to pay for it. Unfortunately all of the pre-printing costs are the same for a PDF as they are for a hardcopy book, the only costs really lacking are the paper, ink and binding.

After all you are just buying access to information and in the digital age all information should be free.  Certainly creative types should put their work out there for free and be happy they have an audience. As for editing, layout, product promotion and all of that, it is epemeral with no real costs.

/sarcasm

Quote from: Christopher Brady;973965I have issues when it comes to PDF pricing.  It's really worth nothing more than what the Author/Creator thinks it's worth.  Other than time and effort, which are ephemeral, there's no other real costs typically associated with it.

But a hard bound book, of any stripe, that has costs that the author/company often has to pay to put the product out there.  I dunno.

I have issues too.

£12 for Star Trek was fine for me, but really anything over a tenner and forget it. I cannot reconcile £20 for 13th age at all.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;973965I have issues when it comes to PDF pricing.  It's really worth nothing more than what the Author/Creator thinks it's worth.  Other than time and effort, which are ephemeral, there's no other real costs typically associated with it.

But a hard bound book, of any stripe, that has costs that the author/company often has to pay to put the product out there.  I dunno.

PDFs have the same pre-production cost as a regular book. The cost of art, editing and layout doesn't go away simply because it is available in two formats.

The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.

I paid £12 for Star Trek on pdf. That price point was a major reason why I decided to buy it.

Generally I prefer print. PDF technology is still not quite there IMO, plus my tablet's battery is likely on the way out and I don't really want to buy another one (tablet, not battery as it can't be replaced).

A lot of the games that hit the market these days are the result of a Kickstarter. I think 7th Sea got John Wick close to a million buckeroos.

Consequently, your pdf's of these games, for which the pdf is really a happy by product, should be half the price they are charging currently. John Wick does NOT need to be charging £25 (or thereabouts) for a game that was funded and them some.

PDF's don't have the print and publishing and shipping costs that paper does. I get that there are costs involved in the product itself, that's fine, but that's a one time cost. Once done, it's done for every copy that will be sold.

No game needs to be more expensive than Trek. £20 for a pdf in almost all cases, including these kickstarter games, is a nonsense IMO.

That's the cold hard reality as far as I'm concerned. I'm all for supporting creators and their content, but I don't give a damn about whether the CEO of DTRPG makes money, he's not a content creator.

EDIT: if the argument is that lower price points undercut the sales of print, well that's too bad. If you don't want that to happen, don't try using both formats. That would be a case of having one's cake and wanting to eat it too. I don't see it as an excuse for overcharging people.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;974263Let's take a moment to analyze this:

1. The labor of the artists and writers don't count as "real" costs for the publisher.

2. The printing costs DO count as "real" costs for the publisher.

Why? It can't be the labor of the person delivering the books, or the person running the printing press, or the person who made the paper, or the person who made the ink, or the person who planted the trees that were used to make the paper. Because we have, after all, established that all labor costs are ephemeral and ultimately just up to whatever the person performing the labor thinks that labor is worth.

So what is this mystical "real cost" which imbibes the paper?

PDF has zero marginal cost.
Every print copy has an individual distribution cost - and POD has an individual production cost.

Personally I tend to buy a hardcopy, even if I find myself in practice mostly running off a pdf. It seems more real when I can hold it!

Quote from: Justin Alexander;974263Let's take a moment to analyze this:

1. The labor of the artists and writers don't count as "real" costs for the publisher.

2. The printing costs DO count as "real" costs for the publisher.

Why? It can't be the labor of the person delivering the books, or the person running the printing press, or the person who made the paper, or the person who made the ink, or the person who planted the trees that were used to make the paper. Because we have, after all, established that all labor costs are ephemeral and ultimately just up to whatever the person performing the labor thinks that labor is worth.

So what is this mystical "real cost" which imbibes the paper?

Mythical is exactly what it isn't... Think about what happens as demand increases for one versus the other and you should be able to see the fantastic difference.