Massive potential of the short and long rest

Voros · May 30, 2017, 06:32:50 PM

Quote from: Coffee Zombie;965245I think if rests were increased, or their benefit diminished, the game would be better for it. The next time I run 5E, this is precisely what I plan on doing. It's kind of a shame that there's no serious or mortal wound mechanics in the game at all now. You are either dying, or on the road to complete recovery in a day.

There are a number of options to slow healing in the DMG. What edition of D&D had a serious or mortal wound mechanic? I didn't play 3e or 4e so I assume one of them did?

Voros · May 30, 2017, 06:35:46 PM

Quote from: Omega;965243I get the feeling the Bladesinger didnt go through as much playtesting as the Undying or Swashbuckler did.

Bladesinger is obviously a bad idea, I would only allow them in the game if I wasn't going to worry about game balance. The min/maxers all had a collective orgasm once it was published.

Omega · May 30, 2017, 06:53:10 PM

Quote from: Willie the Duck;965264If you make that investment, then it has an opportunity cost and is probably fine.

Or the decided that a character totally invested in AC is going to be hard-to-hit, but not necessarily worse than a well designed diviner or abjurer (who have survivability through other mechanics). I'm not sure, I'd need to see the bladesinger in actual play a lot more to come to a hard opinion

You're right. Fights will not last 17 rounds. But a day's worth of fights can. Shield is quite good (I say quite good and not overpowered because there are still plenty of things that do not key off AC) if you can get the 15 minute workday going. If not, and you have to conserve your spells.

1: Thats how it feels so far. Its like my melee oriented Warlock character. Theres a tradeoff of X and Y.

2: Id like to see it in play myself to see what happens. But from experience playtesting for WOTC I've seen that no, they dont really consider the whole as much as they should. But how generous, or not, the DM is with short rests will potentially curb some problems, or magnify them.

3: This is the big thing as noted in 2. If the players are trying to nova and rest every damn battle and the DM is allowing it with no repercussions then things are going to skew probably badly. Same with long rest.

kosmos1214 · May 30, 2017, 07:06:08 PM

Frankly the more I listen to the bladesinger the more I think its overblown its a wizard are type its got what a d4 hd high ac only goes so far for that matter where then hell is that magic of any other non ac target ability its an easy pc to kill.

Omega · May 30, 2017, 07:16:00 PM

Quote from: S'mon;965362She has a ring of protection, I think she has AC 14 armour too - +1 elf chain shirt with me counting elf chain as light armour, but it could just as well be +2 studded. Game is set on Golarion the Pathfinder world, mashing up Rise of the Runelords & Shattered Star, so magic is on the high end by 5e standards and this player maxes for AC, quite sensibly since a couple hits from a big monster could put her out.

Average foe is probably CR 8 with +8 to hit, with 2 or 3 attacks each. Might face 3 such in a typical encounter I think.

1: Normal Chain mail is a Heavy armour, Elven Chain reduces it to Medium. So it still wouldn't count for bladesinging. And wouldn't allow the full DEX bonus. You could make up something like Elven Scale or Elven Half Plate using the same principle and that would work.

2: How many PCs in the party? According to 5e then 3 CR8 monsters should be a deadly encounter for 4 level 13 characters. But this is kinda a good example of why CRs and 5es calculations are guidelines at best.

But at the end of the day. Are you and the players having fun? Yes? Rock on then.

S'mon · May 31, 2017, 02:36:19 AM

Quote from: Omega;9653871: Normal Chain mail is a Heavy armour, Elven Chain reduces it to Medium. So it still wouldn't count for bladesinging. And wouldn't allow the full DEX bonus. You could make up something like Elven Scale or Elven Half Plate using the same principle and that would work.

2: How many PCs in the party? According to 5e then 3 CR8 monsters should be a deadly encounter for 4 level 13 characters. But this is kinda a good example of why CRs and 5es calculations are guidelines at best.

But at the end of the day. Are you and the players having fun? Yes? Rock on then.

5 PC group, levels 11-14, just added a 6th at level 11. Probably most encounters are officially Deadly.
Chain Shirt is medium armour AC 13. I allow Elf Chain Shirt to be Light armour AC 13 ie identical to +1 Studded. Chainmail is AC 16 Heavy AFAICR.

Willie the Duck · May 31, 2017, 07:53:32 AM

Quote from: S'mon;965361She has base AC 23 and being a Wizard is not in the front line, doesn't tank (they have a Barbarian for that, and a Moon Druid), so doesn't get hit every round. Maybe around once or twice a fight, and some of those are crits. She is certainly happy to burn her 1st level spell slots on Shield, occasionally dips into 2nd level slots. I don't think she is running out of slots - actually I don't think any of the PCs (mostly 13th level) run out of resources at a much faster rate than any other. Usually the group is out of hit dice & running low on hit points & healing as the main impetus to seek a long rest, I think.

You have a wizard who is not on the front line, and doesn't tank, and we're worried that she has an AC through the roof? This is sounding more and more like a paper tiger.

Omega · May 31, 2017, 07:55:39 AM

Quote from: Willie the Duck;965489You have a wizard who is not on the front line, and doesn't tank, and we're worried that she has an AC through the roof? This is sounding more and more like a paper tiger.

No. We only just were told shes not a frontlineer.

Try again please.

Willie the Duck · May 31, 2017, 07:57:06 AM

Yes. With this new information, the scenario is looking like a paper tiger.

S'mon · May 31, 2017, 01:40:03 PM

Quote from: Willie the Duck;965492Yes. With this new information, the scenario is looking like a paper tiger.

Game certainly plays fine even with my AC 28 Bladesinger. She occasionally takes on an emergency tanking roll if the Barbarian is down/dead/nearly out of hp, and she is the most powerful PC although the Moon Druid is a level higher (and the Bladesinger is actually Rog-1/Wiz-12). But it's not a Pathfinder-style issue of PCs breaking the game, trivialising boss fights etc.

RPGPundit · June 02, 2017, 08:27:23 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;964618What did you want?

Well, I took an extreme position. I tried to convince Mike Mearls that actual healing from rest should be fairly limited, and to substitute that there should be an emphasis on things like curative herbs and characters with healing skills. In essence, to make healing a resource as much as a time-management issue.

Headless · June 02, 2017, 01:57:10 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;965984Well, I took an extreme position. I tried to convince Mike Mearls that actual healing from rest should be fairly limited, and to substitute that there should be an emphasis on things like curative herbs and characters with healing skills. In essence, to make healing a resource as much as a time-management issue.

I like that. I use something similar in conception but opposite in execution.

I like healing from rest, I don't like healing from magic. So magic healing is limited and temporary with wounds opening up again after the magic wears off. But resting heals provided a pleasent camp and fire (I think I started this thread describing the difference between a dry camp and a cold one.) I will just hand wave in tea's and salves and stitches.

Ulairi · June 02, 2017, 02:10:11 PM

Quote from: Headless;966025I like that. I use something similar in conception but opposite in execution.

I like healing from rest, I don't like healing from magic. So magic healing is limited and temporary with wounds opening up again after the magic wears off. But resting heals provided a pleasent camp and fire (I think I started this thread describing the difference between a dry camp and a cold one.) I will just hand wave in tea's and salves and stitches.

Me too. I allow healing from magic to be stabilizing but not like video game healing that players just shoot up with health.

mAcular Chaotic · June 03, 2017, 04:44:51 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;965984Well, I took an extreme position. I tried to convince Mike Mearls that actual healing from rest should be fairly limited, and to substitute that there should be an emphasis on things like curative herbs and characters with healing skills. In essence, to make healing a resource as much as a time-management issue.

What effect do you think would that have had on the game?

Would they regain those resources on resting? Seems like in that case it would just be the same thing but a step removed.

crkrueger · June 03, 2017, 05:10:07 PM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;966176What effect do you think would that have had on the game?

Would they regain those resources on resting? Seems like in that case it would just be the same thing but a step removed.

The difference being one remotely resembles how things might work according to Physics, Biology Chemistry and the entire knowledge base of humanity. The other...not so much.