I think there is a lot of potential to set tone in the short long rest mechanic of 5.0.

I mostly hear people complaining about it but if we just remember that the DM makes the rules, not the book, it can be a really useful tool.  

For instance I want to limit healing.  Or make it non-magical.  No scratch that I don't have a problem with magical healing.  I don't want video game hp in my role playing game.  It removes risk, and makes every fight a slog to see who can wrack up the biggest numbers fastest.  (I might start another thread about arithmetic, geometric, an logarithmic risk and reward)  

Any way I like players being able to heal them self by resting.  The mechanism fits with the game we just need to add the narration.  Lost a bunch of hit points, maybe you need to put a salve or cool water on a burn, put a preasure bandage on a gash, maybe you had the wind knocked out of you and you just need to sit down and catch your breath.  

Now if you are fresh and health and have a clean dry safe place to do that it might only take 20 min.  One hour is fine, I think thats what the book says, it could take some people longer than others and we don't want varible rest times.   If you are trudging throught the wilds it takes longer.  You have to unpack your gear.  Start a fire to brew a tea or make a salve, hot food is more rejuvenating than cold food.  Its easy enough to read you spell book in your own study, it another thing to try to memorize your spells by flickering candle light in a wet camp with the mosquito biting you and the dire wolves holwing not very far away.

Anyway.   I have more to say about it, but I need to look over the rules as written again.

Quote from: Headless;964321I think there is a lot of potential to set tone in the short long rest mechanic of 5.0.

I mostly hear people complaining about it but if we just remember that the DM makes the rules, not the book, it can be a really useful tool.  

For instance I want to limit healing.  Or make it non-magical.  No scratch that I don't have a problem with magical healing.  I don't want video game hp in my role playing game.  It removes risk, and makes every fight a slog to see who can wrack up the biggest numbers fastest.  (I might start another thread about arithmetic, geometric, an logarithmic risk and reward)  

Any way I like players being able to heal them self by resting.  The mechanism fits with the game we just need to add the narration.  Lost a bunch of hit points, maybe you need to put a salve or cool water on a burn, put a preasure bandage on a gash, maybe you had the wind knocked out of you and you just need to sit down and catch your breath.  

Now if you are fresh and health and have a clean dry safe place to do that it might only take 20 min.  One hour is fine, I think thats what the book says, it could take some people longer than others and we don't want varible rest times.   If you are trudging throught the wilds it takes longer.  You have to unpack your gear.  Start a fire to brew a tea or make a salve, hot food is more rejuvenating than cold food.  Its easy enough to read you spell book in your own study, it another thing to try to memorize your spells by flickering candle light in a wet camp with the mosquito biting you and the dire wolves holwing not very far away.

Anyway.   I have more to say about it, but I need to look over the rules as written again.

Yeah, I don't get the bitching a lot of people have about this. a) The designers of 5e have been very up front about "you're not gonna break this, do what works at your table" and b) the DMG explicitly lays out variations to the time of the rests to get different effects.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;964324Yeah, I don't get the bitching a lot of people have about this. a) The designers of 5e have been very up front about "you're not gonna break this, do what works at your table" and b) the DMG explicitly lays out variations to the time of the rests to get different effects.

I am honestly quite okay with stuff like this in the 5E book. They had to bring a lot of people together for 5E (old school players, 3e players and 4 players). And the underlying philosophy seems to be very much what you say, do what works for your table.

The variations are pretty useful. When I first heard about that when they were still playtesting I pulled it into my 3E game and based it on the style of campaign. So when I ran wuxia, I had a much faster rate than when I ran dark fantasy.

I don't have 5E, but if I understand the short rest mechanic, it makes sense by the Gygaxian definition of hit points. He liked the Robin Hood example of characters going back and forth wearing the opponent down. Hit points were a mix of luck, skills, endurance, along with actual ability to take damage.

Given his interpretation, it makes sense you can get some HP back by sitting down, catching your breath and heating a kettle of tea on the campfire. Anyway, it's easy enough to house rule away if it doesn't fit the playstyle you are going for.

It's the kind of thing you need to settle with the other people in your gaming group. It makes no difference what other people out on the Internet are doing.

The problem with short rest and long rest is they eliminated wandering monsters.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;964344The problem with short rest and long rest is they eliminated wandering monsters.

I don't know what you are talking about.  Please explain.

I guess he thinks they've elminated wandering monsters even though there's a table in pretty much every official 5e adventure book I've seen.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;964344The problem with short rest and long rest is they eliminated wandering monsters.

The problem with the short rest and long rest 5E defaults is that they eliminate wandering monsters.  Since a lot of people don't like wandering monsters, this is a (feature or bug?) type of thing.  

I do like wandering monsters quite a bit.  So I use some of the options for short rest and long rests that put wandering monsters back on the table.

It's trivially easy.  In fact, it's so easy I was shocked when people went into hysterics about the issue in 4E (which had the defaults, but not the options).  The whole point in having a termed "short rest" and "long rest" concept is to hang clear rules from it.  If you can hang clear rules on a term, then you can hang options to those same rules on the term, with minimal work.  (Rather than needing to dig through all the rules, spells, feats, etc. to find nasty side effects to house rules.)

All "short rests" and "long rests" do is provide a "level of indirection" between the actions that characters take to rest and what they get from those action.  The rest of the system mostly puts things in terms of "short rests" and "long rests" so that when you change what they get from them, the rest of the system still works.  (Mostly still works, anyway, depending upon whether you are using warlocks or not.)

Since when did 5e get rid of wandering monsters? The official adventures tell you to roll for them every so many hours.

It seems to me to be a separate issue anyways. Wondering monsters are good or bad regardless of the act of adding a Short Rest mechanic to the rules (Long rest has always been there).  I do get that the Healing your HP with a long rest rule does eliminate the whole situation of camping out in the wilderness with an unconscious cleric, getting back a measly couple of hp/day and clenching your pucker with each roll of the wandering monster check. But other than that, I don't see what it has to do with the rest mechanics.

Quote from: Headless;964347I don't know what you are talking about.  Please explain.

Really?  Okay.

In Original D&D, you rolled once per 10 minute turn for a wandering monster.  There was a 1/6 chance.

Wandering monsters had no treasure, and monster XP was junk on purpose; wandering monsters were resource drains and nothing else.

There were six "wandering monster level" charts.  On the first dungeon level, you could possibly get a 4th level wandering monster, which included Wights -- hit by silver or magic weapons only, drain levels; Wraiths -- magic weapons only, fly, drain levels; Gargoyles -- magic weapons only; as well as sixth level magic users or fighters.

So, you HAD to keep moving.  Wandering monsters entirely change the nature of the game.

I think Headless is confused because you say they eliminated wandering monsters but they still have them in 5e.

With the default settings, you may still be rolling for wandering monsters, but they are mostly neutered compared to their original purpose.  You can't get easily* worn down over time by wandering monsters if you can use short rests for healing and then long rests to get all of your hit points back (and half your hit dice).   Thus, the default settings have largely eliminated the function of wandering monsters from the game, even if you still roll on a table and still use them.

* It can barely be managed by a competent GM that deliberately monkeys with the odds, but that is a lot more trouble than changing the frequency and/or benefits of rests to work more like the original.  I've done it both ways.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;964382Really?  Okay.

In Original D&D, you rolled once per 10 minute turn for a wandering monster.  There was a 1/6 chance.

Wandering monsters had no treasure, and monster XP was junk on purpose; wandering monsters were resource drains and nothing else.

There were six "wandering monster level" charts.  On the first dungeon level, you could possibly get a 4th level wandering monster, which included Wights -- hit by silver or magic weapons only, drain levels; Wraiths -- magic weapons only, fly, drain levels; Gargoyles -- magic weapons only; as well as sixth level magic users or fighters.

So, you HAD to keep moving.  Wandering monsters entirely change the nature of the game.

Ahh ok.  First thats on the DM.  It's one of the many published offical rules that is actually a house rule.  

Second read as written thats stupid.  If I stop I have a greater chance of an encounter thannif I keep moving?  Thats dumb.

Third if thats your problem with short rests, I will remind you that a wise guy once said "the rules can't cure stupid." apply some mental flexiblity and creativity to the problem.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;964344The problem with short rest and long rest is they eliminated wandering monsters.

Wandering monsters had no treasure, and monster XP was junk on purpose; wandering monsters were resource drains and nothing else.

1: Theres still wandering monsters? They just cant easily interrupt a long rest now. Its just noe mostly on the DM to make up the tables. They gove some examples of how in the DMG.

2: They still dont.