Quote from: Zirunel;960907Absolutely right, as you note with the costumes, all those moves take a toll. At some point, the piece just has to stay put in a controlled environment and never leave. As for stabilization and conservation, you don't even need a firm. One professional conservator can do the job. Of course, the longer you put it off the more expensive it would get. But once done, you could just build a virtual 3-D model of it for touring. Navigate around it on a screen, let people virtually walk through it, print a physical copy if you really want, whatever.

But that would require money, and I honestly don't think TF has any.  Chump change, maybe, but I'd bet an ice cold Sam Adams that they couldn't scrape up even, oh, $2000 from TF money.  Between them all they could probably scrape it out of pocket, but I don't think TF has any funds.

Did you know that TF also stands for "Terminal Flatulence"?  Thoughts like that cheer me immensely.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960901We learned - the hard way - at Gary Con three years ago that transporting just one of our Tekumel costumes is a major job, and it did take some damage; the leather is forty years old, I had to realize. Which is why I really prefer not to take stuff to conventions, anymore, as the risks of theft and damage have gotten just simply too strong. The logistics are pretty daunting, and I'm not young any more.

Damn, it is, isn't it.

And again, logistics.  I just don't have the boundless energy and, if I may so myself, the rather impressive physical strength I had 35 years ago.

I kind of miss it.  It was so nice to say, "Body, do this," and it did.

Quote from: AsenRG;960914It ain't likely to happen any time soon, though, so we have to focus on creating our own material, and possibly using the "totally unofficial, unlicensed" materials circulating on the web;).

Agreed, and it's already happening. I see a lot of it go by.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;960920But that would require money, and I honestly don't think TF has any.  Chump change, maybe, but I'd bet an ice cold Sam Adams that they couldn't scrape up even, oh, $2000 from TF money.  Between them all they could probably scrape it out of pocket, but I don't think TF has any funds.

Did you know that TF also stands for "Terminal Flatulence"?  Thoughts like that cheer me immensely.

They don't; this came out during the grilling at Con of the North. There's simply not the revenue stream that they were expecting - not the (quote) "$5,000 per year per license" that they wanted, nor the money to give each of them the (quote) "$50,000 a year salary" that they wanted. From what I've been told, they can't even pay the rent on their office, and it has to be donated by their landlord, who is also one of their directors.

They simply didn't want to hear from me what the real numbers have been for forty years; the data didn't validate their theory, so it had to be bad data. I said this quite a few times during my year with them, but hey - I'm just another fan, so what do I know...

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;960921Damn, it is, isn't it.

And again, logistics.  I just don't have the boundless energy and, if I may so myself, the rather impressive physical strength I had 35 years ago.

I kind of miss it.  It was so nice to say, "Body, do this," and it did.

Agreed! I've got everything set up for transport by cart - I have a fleet of them - and can get in and out of a facility with a full van load (64 cubic feet of game stuff) in pretty short order. But, that's all I can do; I can't do the logistics and run the games, not without help, and I simply don't get that. So, while I've spent a good chunk of change on plastic tubs, they stay here at the house and make my gaming life a whole lot easier by allowing me to move in and out of the game room in about fifteen minutes for each game set-up.

It's all about organization; I get the most out of my limited resources by really using it.

And I do get razzed and poked at for being so organized, too. This lasts right up until I ask people for help, whereupon they simply evaporate. :rolleyes:

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960911Agreed. The Missus offered to do the 3-D walk thru show, but was turned down by the TF on this. So, the data is in storage until it's wanted.

It would be really wonderful if she could do that with one(or more) epic scenes from your book.
Since it sounds like you have everything needed to recreate one(them).

The right 360 from the middle of a big battle would be amazing.

All for the book of course, nothing to promote the Tekumel IP specifically...
=

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960939They don't; this came out during the grilling at Con of the North. There's simply not the revenue stream that they were expecting - not the (quote) "$5,000 per year per license" that they wanted, nor the money to give each of them the (quote) "$50,000 a year salary" that they wanted. From what I've been told, they can't even pay the rent on their office, and it has to be donated by their landlord, who is also one of their directors.

They simply didn't want to hear from me what the real numbers have been for forty years; the data didn't validate their theory, so it had to be bad data. I said this quite a few times during my year with them, but hey - I'm just another fan, so what do I know...

If they're not getting what they (very naively) expected, I wouldn't be surprised if they sold the Tekumel name eventually.

Chirine, I'm reading the Pé Chói article found in one of the Seal of the Imperium journals. It mentions a detail which I never thought about before: there's probably Pé Chói technology going back to Humanspace on Tékumel. The Pé Chói themselves don't seem to be interested in it, at all. But this suggests, of course, that there is alien tech from other non-human species scattered around too; tech from the Shén, or the Hlutrgú, etc.

In your adventures, did you ever come across technology that was specifically alien or non-human?

Quote from: Zirunel;960733You may well be right. Questions like this, around the sausage-making of world-building are exactly the kind of questions that might have answers in the professors archives. It would be great to reconstruct his own construction of this world.

-snip-

The Zna'ye/znanje thing is something I remember, and maybe something different. That wasn't something that clearly came from the Professor, it was an idea that Alex Stojanavic proposed. As I recall, the Professor didn't pooh-pooh it, but he brushed it aside and moved on. That doesn't really tell you anything, and Alex Stojanavic's ideas can be very cool .

But my (again uninformed) guess is that the Professor's background in Slavic languages was extremely limited (or zero), so while the idea is cool and worth pursuing for your own Tekumel, I don't think it was ever part of the Professor's actual world-building process.

Yes you're right, I do remember that conversation between Alex and the professor. I concur it probably is merely coincidence, but who can say? As Phil states in another Blue Room thread (I believe, or perhaps in a response on the yahoo group?) that he had forgotten where the inspiration for many of his ideas originally came from.
One thing though, there are a surprisingly large number of Slavic words which are derived from Sanskrit and I have to think that Phil would have known some Sanskrit. Perhaps that is where the derivation unintentionally comes from?
I wholeheartedly agree with you looking at the bare bones of his world building process is/would be great. I love this type of analysis and speculation.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960939They don't; this came out during the grilling at Con of the North. There's simply not the revenue stream that they were expecting - not the (quote) "$5,000 per year per license" that they wanted, nor the money to give each of them the (quote) "$50,000 a year salary" that they wanted. From what I've been told, they can't even pay the rent on their office, and it has to be donated by their landlord, who is also one of their directors.

They simply didn't want to hear from me what the real numbers have been for forty years; the data didn't validate their theory, so it had to be bad data. I said this quite a few times during my year with them, but hey - I'm just another fan, so what do I know...

Got to love people with this mentality. I had to deal with these types for years until I finally had enough and switched jobs/careers. They are incorrigible and are best avoided for the sake of one's blood pressure and continued liberty.

Quote from: AsenRG;960914It ain't likely to happen any time soon, though, so we have to focus on creating our own material, and possibly using the "totally unofficial, unlicensed" materials circulating on the web;).

I think that this is the best solution, and the path I have been following for some time now. For me, as long as it maintains the consistency/feel of Tekumel it's good enough.

Quote from: bconsidine;960866First time poster, 619 page lurker. This thread has been instrumental in rekindling my love of Tekumel, which started when EPT first came out and was forever cemented when I saw the Temple of Vimuhla at an early GenCon (either last at the Playboy Club or first at UW Parkside).

Keep it up, folks. I'm along for the entire ride.

Blaise

Welcome aboard!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960896Oh, my. Well, I did promise to answer all questions as honestly as I can, so here goes...

When I left Phil's orbit back in 1988, I had followed his instructions and put the box with the Temple inside out in his garage. I made sure that the box was closed - I had made it so it could be bolted tightly shut. Sometime in the middling 2000's, two of the then-TNG took the box out of the garage to show the Temple to a visiting Big Name Tekumel Fan. This video is up on the web someplace, and I also have copies of all the photos that were taken at the time. When they put the box back into the garage, they damaged several of the casters and left the lid of the box askew and thus open. The box was removed from the garage in 2011, as part of the removal of all Phil's Tekumel collections to the TF's storage bay.

In the decade leading up to this point, mice had gotten into the Temple, and were living and dying in there. I did a complete photo survey of all the damage, and did - at the TF's request - a compete survey of the damage and suggested repairs. I was then told by the TF to bring the Temple to the memorial event for Phil, despite my advisory that it was in no shape to be viewed; I was told to make it happen anyway, as it was very important for the TF's prestige to have the Temple on display. So, with the TF's approval, I vacuumed out the six dead mice and five cubic gallons of shredded mouse bedding, fecal matter, and other by-products of the mice living in the building. I also used distilled water and a human-grade surgical disinfectant to clean the mouse urine out of the building, and I used the special collection bag that we use for abatement work and made sure that all the small detail parts that the mice had knocked loose were collected - I also had the complete photo surveys for getting everything back into place. The Temple was displayed at the event, and many photos and at least one video of it at that time have been posted to the Internet.

After the event, the Temple lived In my basement until I got the box all fixed up, including lining the box with carpeting to help protect the thing from bumps and such, and then the entire thing went off to the TF's new office. As far as I know, it's still there; at least, the box is there.

The pathetic little postscript to this story is that after I did all this work, the TF made a lot of noise about showing the thing off at conventions like Gary Co, and expected me to do this traveling road show for them. I said fine, and bought all sorts of trade show gear - securable booth, lighting, etc. - but then said let's talk budget, and they instantly dropped the idea. Since then, several Tekumel fans have been told by the TF when visiting their office that I destroyed the Temple before the memorial event. in a fit of spite and from my hatred of Phil. Which is why the Temple can't be shown to the public, as it's been totally ruined by Yours Truly. (The fans had, of course, had been at the memorial event and had seen the work I'd done to fix the poor old thing up for the event.) This is much in the same vein as their story that they can't publish any of Phil's files, because these were destroyed by my third daughter and so can't be shown to anyone.

When I expressed my concerns about the Temple's conservation, I was told that the TF has "the top people, top people, working on it." That was over four years ago, I think.

If it were me, I'd restore the temple to a stable state, then commission a new version that could go to conventions as the original is now over forty years old and showing it's age. It'd be easy for me to do, with today's technology - I offered to do it for free, originally - and a props house could do it in a month; for a fee, of course.)

That's the story. And may provide some insight as to why I get upset at times...

. What else is there to say?

Quote from: Zirunel;960567Sometimes it seems to me, people are so obsessed with stressing the "alien" "non-western" character of Tekumel (oh look, Mayans in space!) that they downplay the huge classical Hellenistic/Imperial-Roman Mediterranean elements in the Professor's grand pastiche. It's a mashup sure, with a lot of ingredients, but much of it really isn't as "non-western" as some people pretend.

Exactly! This is why I have never understood the "Tekumel is too hard," or "too exotic" mindset. There are many layers to Phil's creation and if you take the time to look at it, it's easy to find a comfort zone for your style of play and run an appropriate game there.

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;960979One thing though, there are a surprisingly large number of Slavic words which are derived from Sanskrit and I have to think that Phil would have known some Sanskrit. Perhaps that is the were the derivation unintentionally comes from?

I could totally buy that.