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Green Ronin Talent Contest - Looking For Female Writers - Discussion

Started by trechriron, April 11, 2017, 02:26:57 AM

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Simlasa

What are some good gaming blogs written by women?
AFAIK most all the ones I read, save one (Scrap Princess's), are by guys... but those are often where I become aware of people making cool things that I want to buy/fund.

Ratman_tf

Quote from: CRKrueger;9566291. Finding a more diverse writing pool for RPGs is good if...you believe someone's "journey", "voice" etc about their personal life will somehow critically inform their writing and be the key element.
Was Mike Pondsmith's Cyberpunk game somehow fundamentally informed by him being a Cisgendered Heterosexual Black Man born in the 50's?  If any of those things were different, would CYberpunk have been better or worse?  If so, which ones and how? Be specific.

It's the sign of the times. I intentionally have to think of Pondsmith as just another gamer guy making games, because when his skin color comes up, I don't want to focus on it, for any reason. (On the topic of games and gaming.)
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

cranebump

Quote from: CRKrueger;956638Do you mean for anyone, or only for certain Identities?  If anyone can do it, why the targeted campaign?  Are women incapable of doing this themselves without the cover of an exclusive pool of applicants?

With the ability to self-publish, I'd say anyone capable of getting their stuff out there these days.

I can't speak to finding actual job openings within the industry, though.
"When devils will the blackest sins put on, they do suggest at first with heavenly shows..."

Black Vulmea

Watching reactionary misogynists shit themselves is comedy gold.

Way to troll, Green Ronin, you magnificent bastards!
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM\'s job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

Really Bad Eggs - swashbuckling roleplaying games blog  | Promise City - Boot Hill campaign blog

ACS

tenbones

Quote from: cranebump;956639You're saying that having to give up some of the pie is unjust to white guys. That's bullshit, since white guys have more of the pie to begin with.

As is often said when speaking about minority groups - all "white guys" aren't the same. That they happen to be white isn't necessarily the issue here either (this is about women in the industry). The "pie" in this case is WotC. The rest of the roleplaying industry is a fairly cottage industry that, as been said upthread, has *zero* barriers to bringing a game to market.

Quote from: cranebump;956639I'm saying white guy isn't used to being challenged, and often acts like a fucking ninny when he is, often because white guy won't admit that he has historical advantages, created and codified by white guy. White guy needs to admit that, and can admit that, without having to give up white guy's dignity.

I'd say historically this is insanely inaccurate. Males are pre-disposed to compete. We're biologically programmed to do so. It's a function of evolution. To say "white guys" aren't used to being challenged, in light of history and how things have evolved - I'd say this is way off. Again - being "white" is not really an issue. I'm confident if you look at the RPG industries in foreign nations they're probably mostly male too. And for the same reasons that have little to do with oppression as a industry institution.

Quote from: cranebump;956639P.S. I don't think the jury is still out. We've manged to engineer the society one way. Who says we can't engineer it another? But we need to agree on the blueprint somehow.

Because historically this rarely has happened without great bloodshed. I'll grant you theoretically it could happen. But then theoretically Communism could work too. But it doesn't for the exact same reasons.

My take on this is - Cool for Green Ronin. If it's good, I'll buy it. If not, I won't.

Ashakyre

Quote from: cranebump;956628What I'm for is not getting worked up over something that doesn't actually harm you.  I'm a white dude. I'm not rich. I don't feel threatened or demeaned by this. I don't have to, because there are ample opportunities out there for me (which is sort of the point they're making). I just don't think we need to be so pissy that someone else gets to play with a toy that we don't.

I also think what some SJW's want is for white guy succeeding to admit that white guys have always had the advantage, because they made the advantage systemic. They would say that white guy doesn't succeed simply because white guy is so much more bad ass than everyone else. Various conditions contribute to white guy's badassery, among them the lack of any real barriers to what white guy wants to do, which allows white guy to be white guy's bad ass self much more easily than black/brown guy or any woman.

So, we get excluded from something. Well, guess what? Now we know what it's been like for women and minorities since the beginning. I think we can handle it better, which includes not screaming bloody murder when we see women and minorities have exclusive opportunities. Part of that is righting the ship. I may not always agree with how that's done, but status quo preachers are blind to the reality that very real injustices are woven into the fabric of a country that prides itself on being equitable. So, we either live up to it, or we admit we're a bunch of fucking liars, trash our supposed ideals, and call ourselves something else. Or, we can actually try to live up to our stated goals.

All that preaching aside, this is a simple issue. Their company, their pursuit. This is small potatoes. Quit whining and drive on.

P.S. Rich white guys fuck over EVERYBODY. Poor white guy needs to stop voting for rich white guy, just because he is rich, white guy.

If you want to split the pie evenly then women have a lot of dying to do. Men are 80% of suicides and drug overdoses, 90% of the prison population and the vast majority of the homeless population too. Oh, and wars. Next war, for social justice, I want combat deaths to be 100% female. And amputations. And keep going like that war after war until we've equalized the exact number of combat deaths between men and women throughout history. Gotta split that pie, bro. No whining! Don't get pissy, OK? Now women can learn what it's always been like men when they're getting bayonetted.

Or we can have a look at benefits versus sacrifice, authority versus responsibility like reasonable people might.

Ratman_tf

The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

AsenRG

Quote from: Ashakyre;956620"Suck it up and drive on."

It's almost you're for traditional male stocism whenever it's convenient.

White guy succeeds. SJW's take it out on poor white guys. Look closely, it's just an excuse for rich white guys to fuck over poor white guys while pretending to be compassionate.

I am in favour of traditional male stoicism, and proud of the fact.
What Do You Do In Tekumel? See examples!
"Life is not fair. If the campaign setting is somewhat like life then the setting also is sometimes not fair." - Bren

Ashakyre

Quote from: AsenRG;956650I am in favour of traditional male stoicism, and proud of the fact.

That's fine, but it has to be incentivized or you lose it.

Baulderstone

Quote from: CRKrueger;956638Do you mean for anyone, or only for certain Identities?  If anyone can do it, why the targeted campaign?  Are women incapable of doing this themselves without the cover of an exclusive pool of applicants?

I mean for anyone.

Why the targeted campaign? It's marketing. It's not like there haven't been traditional book publishers that leaned heavily on publishing female writers.

I'm not arguing that it is necessary. I just don't have any problem with it.

crkrueger

Quote from: cranebump;956639You're saying that having to give up some of the pie is unjust to white guys. That's bullshit, since white guys have more of the pie to begin with.

I'm saying white guy isn't used to being challenged, and often acts like a fucking ninny when he is, often because white guy won't admit that he has historical advantages, created and codified by white guy. White guy needs to admit that, and can admit that, without having to give up white guy's dignity.

P.S. I don't think the jury is still out. We've manged to engineer the society one way. Who says we can't engineer it another? But we need to agree on the blueprint somehow.

Of course White Men have advantages.  That's not the question.  The question is, can we force Justice and Correction through societal engineering via Identity Politics?  Is that going to help or is it going to make it worse and actually take longer due to invoking backlashes and Culture Wars? {Glances at the White House}. Have we made the progress we have due to enforced mandates or the advances of technology?  Hand up or hand out?  Righting a wrong or creating cultures of victimhood?  There's evidence the short-term good, which looks good for election statistics, may be doing long-term cultural harm.  

The point is, we need to stop and think, rather than jump to the standing ovation.  Could anyone other than a black woman have written Beloved or The Color Purple?  I don't know, but if we're going to get rid of anything done by a writer who did not directly experience what they are writing about, then we're going to lose 90% of everything ever written as well as admit that human empathy and creativity do not exist.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

crkrueger

Quote from: Baulderstone;956652It's marketing.

I'm not arguing that it is necessary. I just don't have any problem with it.

That right there is why I do have a problem with it.  It's a marketing move masquerading as social justice playing into a false narrative.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

crkrueger

Quote from: Black Vulmea;956644Watching reactionary misogynists shit themselves is comedy gold.

Way to troll, Green Ronin, you magnificent bastards!

If you weren't replying to me, ok, if you were, then please kiss my ass, right in the crack, feel free to use tongue. :D

As an isolated event, this is a good thing.  What's the desired result?  Finding a talented RPG writer and give them work and exposure they currently do not have.  That's good for them, good for the company, good for gamers who buy the product.

However, think about it...if this person hasn't attempted to do anything like this before, then why would they come up now?  RPG companies have talent searches, there's usually a few a year from one company or another.  So who is Green Ronin going to get with this specific one targeted at only females?  It's basically saying "We know the industry is preventing you from writing an RPG, so we're going to give you this special opportunity."  I don't really know how that's going to help the industry or the culture at large, since the idea itself is horseshit.  Does anyone really think WotC and Paizo are discriminating against female writers? REALLY?

Now, to be honest, I am considering the source.  If some other company had done this, it's very possible they had a specific project in mind and simply wanted to see if they could get some different points of view.  The idea isn't that men and women don't think a little differently, it's the idea that they CAN'T think differently that I am against.  Different perspectives are good things.  The problem is, because it's Green Ronin, we know the reasoning behind it is political activism based on a toxic narrative, or worse marketing based on that toxic narrative.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

crkrueger

Quote from: tenbones;956645As is often said when speaking about minority groups - all "white guys" aren't the same. That they happen to be white isn't necessarily the issue here either (this is about women in the industry). The "pie" in this case is WotC. The rest of the roleplaying industry is a fairly cottage industry that, as been said upthread, has *zero* barriers to bringing a game to market.



I'd say historically this is insanely inaccurate. Males are pre-disposed to compete. We're biologically programmed to do so. It's a function of evolution. To say "white guys" aren't used to being challenged, in light of history and how things have evolved - I'd say this is way off. Again - being "white" is not really an issue. I'm confident if you look at the RPG industries in foreign nations they're probably mostly male too. And for the same reasons that have little to do with oppression as a industry institution.



Because historically this rarely has happened without great bloodshed. I'll grant you theoretically it could happen. But then theoretically Communism could work too. But it doesn't for the exact same reasons.

My take on this is - Cool for Green Ronin. If it's good, I'll buy it. If not, I won't.

Heh, countdown to white guys Whitesplaining racism to the Japanese guy. ;)
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Trond

If women were as interested in RPGs as men (or more interested, say), then they would have taken over the hobby long ago. That's what happened to fiction literature in general (check recent authors on the book shelves; more women than men). If women are underrepresented in a field or hobby, it is not necessarily due to sexism. It's not necessarily due to any "problem" at all. Sure I would have liked more women in the hobby, but liking an idea does not make it realistic (and seriously, A LOT of people can't tell the difference).