What OSR sources are best for a Sci Fi game with lots of machine guns and high explosives? Need rules for bursts, grenades, RPGs please. Also, options for combat stances or something similar would be cool.

Quote from: Robyo;956314What OSR sources are best for a Sci Fi game with lots of machine guns and high explosives? Need rules for bursts, grenades, RPGs please. Also, options for combat stances or something similar would be cool.

I like DwD Studios' White Lies, based on White Box: select fire weapons, explosives, rocket launchers, grenade launchers and more.

Skyscrapers and Sorcery is an alternative too.

I forgot to add my criteria: I feel White Lies has an acceptable level of crunch, similar to that of non-modern OSR White Box games. It gives the feel of modern weapons without losing the feel of White Box type OSR games.

Check out the free version of Stars Without Number.

Quote from: Tod13;956316I like DwD Studios' White Lies, based on White Box: select fire weapons, explosives, rocket launchers, grenade launchers and more.

What does White Lies do regarding modern weapon damage vs escalating HP?

I know its the OSR version of Top Secret and its gotten good reviews. Have you played it?

I will check out White Lies. I like the secret agent aspect.

My game is more of a military campaign. Can anyone tell me about Operation Whitebox?

I wish I could remember offhand, but there's an old Dragon Magazine where it stats out WWII German Forces for AD&D because of a weird crossover. It had information on machine guns and some artillery I believe. Maybe someone else will remember which issue.

The only good firearms rules I've ever seen for D&D style games was a Dragon article from the late 70s or early 80's that presented the AC-based to-hit modifiers (a'la 1E) for various black powder guns. The concept of armor making you harder to hit is actually totally fine if you are into realism/versimilitude. But then you need to have different kinds of weapons have different AC-specific to-hit modifiers. Otherwise all weapons are simply 'damage' things', and there honestly isn't any point to having more than one kind of weapon in the game. That's fine if that is how you want to play, but if you enjoy variations among different types of weapons, you really should have some sort of AC specific modifers. Guns are an extreme case, and their value can't be understood unless you have, and use, weapon vs. AC modifiers.

Now if I could just find that pesky table, which I lost track of years ago...

Quote from: Spinachcat;956328What does White Lies do regarding modern weapon damage vs escalating HP?

I know its the OSR version of Top Secret and its gotten good reviews. Have you played it?

Umm. Can you explain what is meant by the question "modern weapon damage vs escalating HP"? Sorry. I'll check the rules when I get home.

I haven't played it. The group I run uses a ruleset I'm writing/playtesting. We have an ongoing weekly fantasy game and just started a once a month sci-fi game set in the Traveller universe using the Classic Traveller modules (with mecha added).

Quote from: Tod13;956419Umm. Can you explain what is meant by the question "modern weapon damage vs escalating HP"? Sorry. I'll check the rules when I get home.

I'm assuming it's the reason I almost didn't bother to look at this thread: D&D-based RPGs tend to give more and more HP to higher-level human characters, while damage is one or two dice per hit, meaning either that needs to change or you'll have guns that can't take anyone down without shooting someone many times because HP will be many times the amount of damage do-able by one shot, which doesn't feel very gun-combat-y.

Quote from: Skarg;956437I'm assuming it's the reason I almost didn't bother to look at this thread: D&D-based RPGs tend to give more and more HP to higher-level human characters, while damage is one or two dice per hit, meaning either that needs to change or you'll have guns that can't take anyone down without shooting someone many times because HP will be many times the amount of damage do-able by one shot, which doesn't feel very gun-combat-y.

Ah. Thanks! The damage for swords is just as wrong, so I don't worry too much about it. Read some combat or hunting stories and you'll see targets (human and otherwise) taken down with single shots of minimal caliber and targets that soaked up dozens of large-caliber rounds before running off never to be seen again and no sign of them ever dying, or even being seen again for years. Same thing with people being gored by cape buffalo and whatnot. Some are dead right there, others live decades with a hole clear through them.

Guns in White Lies do 1d6 (some with up to +3) and bursts (select fire) do double damage. Sniper rifle is 2d6. Grenades are 3d6 and rocket launchers are 4d6. Cannon are 4d6, machine guns (heavy weapons, like on a truck or turret) 3d6, with other heavy weapons going up to 10d6.

Sure, PC's hit points escalate, that's why there's massive damage rules. A PC takes their CON value in amount of damage in a single blow (or whatever the agreed upon system is), let them make a saving throw or die outright. Problem solved.

Our best rule is to keep all firearms on safety, and pointed away from the DM.

Quote from: cranebump;956515Our best rule is to keep all firearms on safety, and pointed away from the DM.

LOL As my group's DM, I'll pass this along.

Quote from: Robyo;956501Sure, PC's hit points escalate, that's why there's massive damage rules. A PC takes their CON value in amount of damage in a single blow (or whatever the agreed upon system is), let them make a saving throw or die outright. Problem solved.

Does White Lies have this rule?

I've seen that massive damage concept before and it looks like a fair trade off. Especially as PC's save vs. death does increase per levels and certain classes could get bonuses.

Quote from: Spinachcat;956520Does White Lies have this rule?

I've seen that massive damage concept before and it looks like a fair trade off. Especially as PC's save vs. death does increase per levels and certain classes could get bonuses.

It is not specifically there. The author was using White Box/White Star as the inspiration, and neither of those use it either (that I recall). (Bill wrote this after being inspired after White Star came out. DwDStudios has a espionage/spy game based on their d00lite system so...)

The described rule does seem a good fit if desired.