I'm taking a happy journey through a bunch of my pre 1980 gaming materials, and on going back through the core book for the JG City State of the Invincible Overlord I was reminded that there is a 5 floor dungeon beneath the city streets. I used the city a number of times in the past, along with dungeons in the Wilderlands campaign, but for the life of me I can't recall doing anything with these maps. As far as I can tell, they are basically unstocked. Was the idea that the DM would populate those as he or she saw fit? What did you do with them?

p.s., how ridiculous is it that the maps are prepared on graph paper with a clear scale, yet the length of nearly every wall is written into the margins! Like you need to be told the 5-square-long hallway is 50 feet long. So goofy!

I populated it with gamblers, smugglers, and black marketeers... at least in the upper levels. Deeper in are hideouts for less desirable factions... a laboratory full of monstrous experiments... and tunnels to the older/deeper ruins.

Judges Guild put out a product called Wraith Overlord which was exactly for this purpose.

http://www.acaeum.com/jg/Item0860.html

Quote from: Larsdangly;941878I'm taking a happy journey through a bunch of my pre 1980 gaming materials, and on going back through the core book for the JG City State of the Invincible Overlord I was reminded that there is a 5 floor dungeon beneath the city streets. I used the city a number of times in the past, along with dungeons in the Wilderlands campaign, but for the life of me I can't recall doing anything with these maps. As far as I can tell, they are basically unstocked.

Quote from: Larsdangly;941878What did you do with them?

Did more with the sewers than the five level dungeon. In the 1990s, the PCs bagged a Nosferatu style vampire, made an ally of him and found a place for him in the sewers to live. Which bit another group of PCs in the ass around 2005 and his little coven was pretty much wiped out. Looking at my notes there were two survivors. One new vampire, and one slightly more experienced.

Quote from: Larsdangly;941878Was the idea that the DM would populate those as he or she saw fit?

Yes that was the idea. You have to remember that the City-State was designed as a play-aide. Basically Bob Bledsaw took what he did in his Middle Earth campaign*, distilled it, and then drew it up and typed some text. Because he was that good with detailed maps the result was a classic.

This is was the first version. It was refined over the years into this version. Mostly by bundling the charts, the five level dungeon, Thunderhold, etc that were shipped separately when originally published.

To explain further, the basic idea was that Judges Guild, Bob Bledsaw, and Bill Owens, would offer a subscription service of DM Aides. The first installation (labeled I for initial), had the CSIO maps and and a newletter. Bill drove up to Gen Con and sold them out of the trunk of his car. Afterwards he and Bob were able to secure a license from TSR that allowed them to put official D&D on their products.

You can get a sense of what the Installments were and what was in them from this list from the Acaeum.
 

Quote from: Larsdangly;941878p.s., how ridiculous is it that the maps are prepared on graph paper with a clear scale, yet the length of nearly every wall is written into the margins! Like you need to be told the 5-square-long hallway is 50 feet long. So goofy!

Bob style of map drawing was to pepper the maps with notes. Tegal Manor is the best example of this. The idea is that you use the maps, notes on the map, and the text to form a complete picture of what the PCs are encountering. The advantage of this approach is that with a glance you can get a seen not only of a room but the surrounding area. It better executed on Tegal Manor than the Five level dungeon.

Quote from: finarvyn;942103Judges Guild put out a product called Wraith Overlord which was exactly for this purpose.

http://www.acaeum.com/jg/Item0860.html

Wraith Overlord detailed the Sewers and the basements that connected to them, the Five level Dungeon remained blank. However their location was indicated on the map.

Quote from: estar;942109This is was the first version. It was refined over the years into this version.

Both those links seem to go to the same place?

The first D&D group I played with used CSIO as home base... and had been using it for a while. We didn't go there much while I was playing with them but they were full of stories about the place, which made it sound wonderfully wild and dangerous. I didn't manage to get a copy of my own till years later but just that initial impression of it fueled my ideas of what D&D was and how I ran games once I started GMing. Even now, when I read it, there's still that initial filter I'm seeing it through... probably reading more into it than what's on the page.

Oops, fixed it the correct link is this.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/56309/City-State-of-the-Invincible-Overlord--Revised?manufacturers_id=31

Quote from: estar;942109Basically Bob Bledsaw took what he did in his Middle Earth campaign*,

* What does this asterisk mean?

City State and the Wilderlands was first discovered via a portal in Bob's Middle Earth campaign

Really? That's nuts! (in a good way). A good lesson for all those folks who think Middle Earth can only be approached as a kind of 'canon worship'.

Quote from: Simlasa;941894I populated it with gamblers, smugglers, and black marketeers... at least in the upper levels. Deeper in are hideouts for less desirable factions... a laboratory full of monstrous experiments... and tunnels to the older/deeper ruins.

I like how you think. I did the same.

Here's a thread from the old Necromancer Games forum where they tried to stock it as a group. It all went south, but it might give you a few ideas:

http://necromancergames.yuku.com/topic/8019/The-FiveLevel-Dungeon?page=1

CSIO/Wraith Overlord is an awesome slice of old school D&D.

Quote from: ningauble;945035Here's a thread from the old Necromancer Games forum where they tried to stock it as a group. It all went south, but it might give you a few ideas:

http://necromancergames.yuku.com/topic/8019/The-FiveLevel-Dungeon?page=1

CSIO/Wraith Overlord is an awesome slice of old school D&D.

I remember that thread. I think I (simontmn1) was the one who trashed it by disagreeing with Snoring Rock about something.

I've used the CSIO and its dungeons, but never really been happy with the results. I think it requires a particular mindset I have lost, that you can see in eg the old Fighting Fantasy gamebooks like Khare Cityport of Traps and City of Thieves, of treating the city as a living dungeon.

Looking over the old Necromancer thread, it looks like I (simontmn1) did a lot of stuff there, much of which I'd completely forgotten... I do remember GMing a PC group adventuring in the 5 Level Dungeon, and at one point they found an ancient Data Crystal from the Altan Federation news network which IMC was the ancestor of the Altanian Barbarian culture, destroyed by the Orichalan Dragon Lords during the War of the Pious & the Philosophers (Altani being Philosophers).

Quote from: S'mon;945145Looking over the old Necromancer thread, it looks like I (simontmn1) did a lot of stuff there, much of which I'd completely forgotten... I do remember GMing a PC group adventuring in the 5 Level Dungeon, and at one point they found an ancient Data Crystal from the Altan Federation news network which IMC was the ancestor of the Altanian Barbarian culture, destroyed by the Orichalan Dragon Lords during the War of the Pious & the Philosophers (Altani being Philosophers).

Sounds like a fun adventure. I ran a Wilderlands game online but we didn't get a chance to get that deep into the setting background. The background is really weird and unique, you could easily take the whole thing into outer space and do a SF campaign.