Quote from: Dulahan;942705Where I'm up to now in the thread, there's been a lot of talk about revivitalizing Tekumel and drawing in new blood.  And I really did want to give my own thoughts based on my own initial barriers, from the point of view of a later convert (2003-4ish - gaming since I was 10 or so in 1992) - not as a "one true way" solution, and definitely NOT a "do it chirine!" mind you, but just as a brain dump of thoughts knowing it's unlikely to ever officially happen:

I'll fully admit I'm a setting nerd.  I dive into settings for fun, way more RPG books than I'll ever play because I enjoy reading fictional histories and cultures.  So that definitely colors my ideas.  But I also know there's a lot of gamers like me, and they're prime targets for Tekumel.

I'm not going to go in depth about what game rules would work.  Frankly?  I don't think rules is really the issue.   Instead, I look to it as a setting and at all the barriers to learning about it, and most aren't the setting at all - us setting nerds are not afraid of funny words or lengthy reading lists, that's often the selling point! I was lucky back in late 2003  when I really started discovering it I could still get a lot of stuff from Titas (And honestly?  Even back then I was concerned about shopping there, with no online storefront just email correspondance, thankfully he's an honest guy so it wasn't an issue, but I definitely hesitated for months before my first order), so I have many of the things that were published.  Most people weren't.

For instance, when the Sourcebook got reprinted on Drivethru, there was actually a lot of buzz in Web circles I frequent about it.  Until it was pointed out it was just a scan of the old version with super tiny font and hand drawn accent marks (and now that I know the story of that, it's even more sad!), which we could see on the Drivethru preview and then bam!  Suddenly all sorts of people were going "Well, fuck that, my eyes can't take a small font" - and I do think it's probably a bit small for easy reading, especially on a tablet or phone. So, more lost sales.  

So us setting nerds were still without an easy way to get Tekumel.  Barriers.  Availability, the format of what's out there, not knowing what to start with (The most common Tekumel thread I see on message boards is "where to start?").  so yeah, I think 'where to start' is the big one to address.

My view is a great, modern first step would be some form of a Quickstart Guide to Tekumel.  A free "preview" sort of thing, 10-20 or so (depending on amount of art) pages of Setting and advice on why it's not so scary as it might appear.  Wet the appetite, give people an idea of the wonder they'll get (not to mention something to hand to players).  As awesome as it is, we don't need a large chunk on the history, don't overwhelm in any point.  Again, wet the appetite, make sure people know there was something.   If not for the cost of color art and printing, I'd even suggest pushing to make it a Free RPG Day handout, but that's probably out of the question unless done as a kickstarter or stretch goal for such.   Though even an online file would be wonderful.

Maybe an outline something like:

1 page on history up to the Seal Imperium.  Just enough to know these periods exist and had an effect on latter history, plus that there's more info out there.  Focus on why each period was important, and give something to tickle interests.  "Before - Distant future, terraformed, original inhabitants pushed aside, Humanspace lords big dicks"  "Egsvan hla Ganga - Religion formalized."  Etc.

1-2 Pages on religion - again, not much, basics of Pavar, names of the gods and cohorts, basics of their purviews, and I mean BASICS.  This is the one place I'm not sure 1 page is enough, and could spill over - and that online because of listing out 20 gods and their domains (Sidebar?).

1 page or less on Modern History and situation.  

1 page on the rest of the 5 Empires AND the world.  this may or may not be combined with the above.

1 page on society, clans, etc.

And the rest of "How you can find ADVENTURE!"  More advice focused, talk about influences like Barsoom and Sword and Sandals stuff.  So like, this thread.  Also, modern references.  I keep seeing someone (was it Greentongue?) talking about anime being a good way to try and do Tekumel, and you know what?  He's not wrong.  There's no perfect anime to point to, HOWEVER, most anime fans are conciously or not already familiar with "Us" societies, and even how Heroes work therein.  That's just a huge theme of so many Shounen stories like Bleach and Naruto.  So honestly, just making those connections blatant would make the mindset a lot easier for people to grasp.  They're also used to the concept of "enemy one day, ally the next."

I probably wouldn't even talk much about the non-human races, except mentioning the Ssu and Hlyss were the world's original inhabitants in the history.  Otherwise? A page or two with a drawing of the "non humans you might encounter in the Imperium" and a short vignette about each.  "A Mighty Shen!"  "The Clever Tinalyia" "The diabolical Hlutgru" or whatever.  Just a picture so you know what they look like and that.  Again, appetite?  Wet.

Oh, and at the start should be a pronunciation guide with the very straight up advice "It is pronounced exactly like it looks, don't be initmidated!  Nor worry about getting it wrong."

Finally, and importantly, conclude with where to go for more information on the world or Rules to play yourself, cite Bethorm, Empire of the Petal Throne, the Sourcebook, Mitlanyal, the language guides, and other things on Drive Thru/RPGnow.  And possibly have something about "stay tuned for a kickstart of an updated Sourcebook"  (Yeah, I think a new layout, some color art, and the likes done through kickstart would be the way to go).  BAM!  A starting point, complete with guidance of where to go next based on what caught your interest and your gaming style preferences.

Maybe have a cute cover of an Ahoggya in a graduation cap looking all Scholarly in front of a chalk board.  "You too can Tekumel!"   (With the latter written on the board in English AND Tsolyani).  Or not, and something more Epic.

A shame one of those other barriers would see this approach as being wrong.  

So to bring this back around, I'm curious about a good way to get this rough effect for the incoming players I'm getting for my own game.  The better and quicker the intro for them, the better for all!  Because this is exactly what I'd love to have for my game.  Because ultimately, you're all right.  This isn't a hard game or setting to grasp!  It's just getting it out there.

First, allow me to be a big ol' meanine poo-poo head and point it it's "whet" the appetite, not "wet."  As in, to sharpen or hone to a fine edge.  You're welcome.

Second, I agree absolutely.  Remember, George Lucas introduced us to a whole universe with 93 words, including "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away."  People don't remember, or weren't there to remember, what it was like before the entire world knew what a Jedi Knight was, or what a lightsaber was, or an Imperial Star Destroyer, etc., etc.

Give 'em a taste, they'll be back for more.

"He gives the kids free samples
because he knows full well
that today's bright shiny faces
will be tomorrow's clientele."

-- Tom Lehrer, "The Old Dope Peddlar"

From Dulahan:
This goes out to Chirine AND The Glorious General, as I am curious about both their answers to these about their time in the Thursday Night Group!

What would you say your favorite 'surprise' was?  Either like, the biggest Matrix "Whoa!" moment, or perhaps the moment that left you feeling the biggest sense of wonder and awe?

The very first night I gamed with Phil, where we were in the hall of the Petal Throne itself. Talk about diving in at the deep end!
The tubeway system.
The First Temple of Vimhula.
The Spaceport.
The South Pole base.
Kashi.
The action at Castle Tilketl.
Third Mar.
Marrying Si N'te.
The Affair of the Malchairan Emerald.
The Battle of Anch'ke.
The Horokaingai adventures.
And a lot more; I'm only up to 127,000 words...

In a similar vein, what was the funniest moment?
Turhshamu the Wizard. Always.
Captain Harchar. Always.
Si N'te marrying her husband off to her friends, so they'd have a place to stay.
Nailing Tom's first PC into the crate, and loading him on to the Inexorable Cart of Chirine ba Kal, which became a decade-long running joke.
And again, a lot more...

Finally in this round:  Any particular favorite recurring NPCs you loved to see return?  (Even if loved to hate  Because I fully know those can end up some of the most fun!  Like the smack talking tank with an AC2 in a Battletech game I ran, kept getting away from the PCs.  They hated that little shit, weak weapon, but always annoying.  The day they blew that thing up they were calling the player who had to drop the game, and he too joined in the celebration!)

Harchar. Turshamu. Thomar. Eyloa the Blue Fish. Makesh. Deq Dimani. The Tlakotani family. And once again, lots and lots of others!

Quote from: Neshm hiKumala;942853Hello everybody,

Although I visit often, it's been a while since I posted anything here.

I just wanted to mention (for the ones who are not part of the Tekumel Discussion Group) that I just uploaded a vectorized version of the Seal of the Emperor to that forum. The vector itself is not perfect yet, but the heavy tracing work is done. Just install Inkscape on your computer, download the file, and start improving it or start adding colors to it, etc. Useful if you need to create clean versions of the Seal for your games, in lo or hi-res, etc.

Hope you find it useful.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tekumel/files/TEKUMEL_Tsolyanu_Seal_vector.svg

Very cool! Thank you!!!

Quote from: Neshm hiKumala;942853Hello everybody,

Although I visit often, it's been a while since I posted anything here.

I just wanted to mention (for the ones who are not part of the Tekumel Discussion Group) that I just uploaded a vectorized version of the Seal of the Emperor to that forum. The vector itself is not perfect yet, but the heavy tracing work is done. Just install Inkscape on your computer, download the file, and start improving it or start adding colors to it, etc. Useful if you need to create clean versions of the Seal for your games, in lo or hi-res, etc.

Hope you find it useful.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tekumel/files/TEKUMEL_Tsolyanu_Seal_vector.svg

Very cool! Thank you!!!

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;942890First, allow me to be a big ol' meanine poo-poo head and point it it's "whet" the appetite, not "wet."  As in, to sharpen or hone to a fine edge.  You're welcome.

Second, I agree absolutely.  Remember, George Lucas introduced us to a whole universe with 93 words, including "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away."  People don't remember, or weren't there to remember, what it was like before the entire world knew what a Jedi Knight was, or what a lightsaber was, or an Imperial Star Destroyer, etc., etc.

Give 'em a taste, they'll be back for more.

"He gives the kids free samples
because he knows full well
that today's bright shiny faces
will be tomorrow's clientele."

-- Tom Lehrer, "The Old Dope Peddlar"

Yes; this. One of the big problems with Tekumel-as-game-setting is that there's the mythology that got started in the middling 1990s that one had to amass and absorb ALL of the materials that it took us over a decade to learn - and, by and large, were created due to our questions and adventures in our games with Phil. That's not the way we did it; all we had to go on was a copy of EPT - we had, what three copies between us, Gronan? - and that was it. Everything else came out of adventures; we simply wrote it all down, both players and GMs. I've been asked to give this kind of quick intro for a while, now, and in these post-"John Carter" days, I say "Barsoom with teeth."

I don't do prolix 64-pages summaries, language camps, or post-graduate studies. I just ask the PCs what they'd like to play, have them choose some skills, and set off. Just like we did at Gary Con two years ago; it seemed to work for all those people at my table, would you say my General?

Quote from: chirine ba kal;942894I don't do prolix 64-pages summaries, language camps, or post-graduate studies. I just ask the PCs what they'd like to play, have them choose some skills, and set off. Just like we did at Gary Con two years ago; it seemed to work for all those people at my table, would you say my General?

Yep.  I wonder how many of those folks were wargamers; we went off like a well-honed commando team.

Also, I'm going to urge you once more to read Terry Pratchett's "Raising Steam."  I mean, how can you not like a book with a character who delivers the line

'I am a liar for the purpose of amusement, publicity, trivial oneupmanship, personal profit and the gaiety of nations, but I'm not lying to you now'.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;942934Yep.  I wonder how many of those folks were wargamers; we went off like a well-honed commando team.

Don't be so modest. I thought that once they all absorbed just who you were - and for that matter, what they were about to play - I think that it wonderfully concentrated their minds. And they learned instantly, from their first encounter in the session, how things worked and why you were carrying on about tactics. They got really smart, really fast, and the net result was one of the very best game sessions I'd ever had.

(Normally, running the Jakalla Underworld as a convention game is dreadfully boring for me, as I've run the thing over and over and over again for some thirty-five years. This little outing, on the other hand, left me sweating and exhausted - it was, not to put to fine a point on it, the fight of my life as a GM.)

And an observation afterward that you made has stuck with me: "These people have had thirty years of RPG gameplay behind them, unlike what we had back in the day..." Which I think is true.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;942935Also, I'm going to urge you once more to read Terry Pratchett's "Raising Steam."  I mean, how can you not like a book with a character who delivers the line

'I am a liar for the purpose of amusement, publicity, trivial oneupmanship, personal profit and the gaiety of nations, but I'm not lying to you now'.

Thanks again; I'm put and about, today, and I'll see if Hugo's has a copy. I'm playing in a D&D game, run by Burl at The Source; it'll be the second time I've played, and I'm looking forward to it...

I am delighted to be able to report that I ha a wonderful game session yesterday! The party took a little side trip off to meet Lord Chirine and his family, using the 'get home' box that they found, and we had a lovely period of rest and recuperation for the party and I got to talk about Tekumel. Much funn was had, and then it was back to Blackmoor. The party was great - they applied some of the tactical lessons I'd talked about, and the creature that had nearly wiped them out got wiped out this time as the party applied their hard-won knowledge.

Longer report on the way; I stayed up way too late, so it's off to bed for me...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;943105I am delighted to be able to report that I ha a wonderful game session yesterday! The party took a little side trip off to meet Lord Chirine and his family, using the 'get home' box that they found, and we had a lovely period of rest and recuperation for the party and I got to talk about Tekumel. Much funn was had, and then it was back to Blackmoor. The party was great - they applied some of the tactical lessons I'd talked about, and the creature that had nearly wiped them out got wiped out this time as the party applied their hard-won knowledge.

Longer report on the way; I stayed up way too late, so it's off to bed for me...

Haha!!! Good fun!!! Uncle, was the creature they fought Tukumel or Blackmoor in origin? I like to hear who fights what...

H:0)

Thank you again, as always, chirine!

I see Turshamu comes up again, can you elucidate more on said wizard?

Quote from: Hrugga;943159Haha!!! Good fun!!! Uncle, was the creature they fought Tukumel or Blackmoor in origin? I like to hear who fights what...

H:0)

It was the same Blackmoor 'Shade Knight' from 5e or something; it was the same thing that ambushed us last session, and pretty badly handled the party - I git killed, for example. This time around, after we got back to Blackmoor, they all thought tactically, and when we got jumped from behind the thing never knew what hit it - an arrow to the head from the archer in the second rank, giving us covering fire, and we in the rear rank giving the thing the Culloden treatment; while it hit my partner, I hit it with a powerful flame spell and then the old buckler-to-the-face-and-mace-to-the gut. It dropped like the proverbial rock, and the party was very pleased.

So, this session began with the Drow hitting the button on the 'get home' box, which had low batteries and so got them to the wrong timeline in Tekumel. Poor dead 1st level Chirine got hauled off to the infirmary to get brought back to life - "A little incense, a few incantations, the Eight Interlocking Oblongs of Surety, and he'll be fine!" said the Chief Physician, in his best bedside manner to the rest of the party - and the party got put up for a couple of days in Lord Chirine's palace while they all rested and got fixed up. One of the party was unfamiliar with the idea of interacting meta-campaigns, and had a lot of confusion. The others simply enjoyed the rest, avoided the carnivorous plants in the gardens, and had a good time.  Got back to Blackmoor, and got back into the castle.

I had a good time doing the local color commentary, while the GM ran the actual dice-rolling as needed. The players seemed to like the chance to role-play, instead of roll-playing. A good tme was had by all, many plots were hatched, and may mysteries unveiled for future game sessions.

Quote from: Dulahan;943179Thank you again, as always, chirine!

I see Turshamu comes up again, can you elucidate more on said wizard?

Turshanu is one of the Undying Wizards, and a really nice chap. Unfortunately, he's also not all that good at this sorcery business, and his usual response to casting any spells is "Oh, bother!" when the effects are not quite what was wanted in the particular situation. Foes usually stop in astonishment, and that's when we'd nail them for him. Because he's so nice and helpful, people tend to look after him, so he stays out of serious harm. You can often meet him of a night in the deserts of Milumaniya, when the moons are in conjunction and his magical ship of the Ancients sails the long-ago seas. He'll stop and give you a lift, if you're polite, and mayhem usually ensues. You might even get where you want to go - eventually...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;943105I am delighted to be able to report that I ha a wonderful game session yesterday! The party took a little side trip off to meet Lord Chirine and his family, using the 'get home' box that they found, and we had a lovely period of rest and recuperation for the party and I got to talk about Tekumel. Much funn was had, and then it was back to Blackmoor. The party was great - they applied some of the tactical lessons I'd talked about, and the creature that had nearly wiped them out got wiped out this time as the party applied their hard-won knowledge.

Longer report on the way; I stayed up way too late, so it's off to bed for me...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;943103May I respectfully disagree? In yesterday's D&D session, we had a very disparate group: Drow Ranger, Human Fighter, Tiefling Ranger, Tiefling Warlock, Human Monk, Human Cleric (me). All 1st level, except for the Drow who is 2nd. The first time this group played, they had the usual loose band of adventurers and got slaughtered; the second time, they used some of my tactical ideas and survived. This third session, they adopted the tactical fomation we used to use all the time, and breezed through Castle Blackmoor's 2nd level with no problems.

What we use to call ' the marching order was: 1st rank - H. Monk, H. Fighter; 2nd - T. Ranger, T. Warlock; 3rd - H. Cleric, D. Ranger. The idea is that the armored people are front and back, with the lightly-armored people in the middle, and these also have ranged weapons/spells to provide 'fire support' to the engaged ranks. So, her looked into a room, and the front two checked it out while the middle two covered them and us; we got hit from behind, but we'd kept a good look-out; the 'Shade' hit my partner, and the Ranger hit it with an arrow and I hit it with a spell. Killed it dead; this was the sort of being that had nearly wiped out the party in the previous game session, and the new 'tactical' approach that the party took made all the difference, the group thought. I got some very nice words from all of them, and I was very pleased to see them using my experiences and advice; I am not the party leader, but I am turning into a sort of 'elder statesman' / veteran adventurer...

So, what I'd call 'micro-tactics', which is what I think Gronan was getting at, and a very diverse group - but maximized to take advantage of strengths and minimize weaknesses . And a very diverse modern kind of group, which is what I think you were getting at.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;943195It was the same Blackmoor 'Shade Knight' from 5e or something; it was the same thing that ambushed us last session, and pretty badly handled the party - I git killed, for example. This time around, after we got back to Blackmoor, they all thought tactically, and when we got jumped from behind the thing never knew what hit it - an arrow to the head from the archer in the second rank, giving us covering fire, and we in the rear rank giving the thing the Culloden treatment; while it hit my partner, I hit it with a powerful flame spell and then the old buckler-to-the-face-and-mace-to-the gut. It dropped like the proverbial rock, and the party was very pleased.

So, this session began with the Drow hitting the button on the 'get home' box, which had low batteries and so got them to the wrong timeline in Tekumel. Poor dead 1st level Chirine got hauled off to the infirmary to get brought back to life - "A little incense, a few incantations, the Eight Interlocking Oblongs of Surety, and he'll be fine!" said the Chief Physician, in his best bedside manner to the rest of the party - and the party got put up for a couple of days in Lord Chirine's palace while they all rested and got fixed up. One of the party was unfamiliar with the idea of interacting meta-campaigns, and had a lot of confusion. The others simply enjoyed the rest, avoided the carnivorous plants in the gardens, and had a good time.  Got back to Blackmoor, and got back into the castle.

I had a good time doing the local color commentary, while the GM ran the actual dice-rolling as needed. The players seemed to like the chance to role-play, instead of roll-playing. A good tme was had by all, many plots were hatched, and may mysteries unveiled for future game sessions.

Glad to hear, here and in the other thread, that people are learning the basics of formation. Next time, Uncle, you should totally introduce them to scouting ahead and preparing an ambush;)!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;943196Turshanu is one of the Undying Wizards, and a really nice chap. Unfortunately, he's also not all that good at this sorcery business, and his usual response to casting any spells is "Oh, bother!" when the effects are not quite what was wanted in the particular situation. Foes usually stop in astonishment, and that's when we'd nail them for him. Because he's so nice and helpful, people tend to look after him, so he stays out of serious harm. You can often meet him of a night in the deserts of Milumaniya, when the moons are in conjunction and his magical ship of the Ancients sails the long-ago seas. He'll stop and give you a lift, if you're polite, and mayhem usually ensues. You might even get where you want to go - eventually...

Sounds like a great NPC:D!