Quote from: jan paparazzi;940561OK, I will get dogs of war and dicey tales.

So ... it's cinematic ... I don't really know if that's a good or bad thing. I played a freeform game once and I liked it. Does that count as cinematic? Which game should I have as a solid second choice in case I don't like BoL? Back to DwD Studios again or something else?

Well, cinematic, I assume means, mechanically, that your heroes are powerful, and you can expect them to succeed at most things they do. But more on point, DoW and DT are about emulating movies and pulp tales, so the cinematic aspect is more about the high drama, thrills and chills, and so on.

Quote from: cranebump;940562Well, cinematic, I assume means, mechanically, that your heroes are powerful, and you can expect them to succeed at most things they do. But more on point, DoW and DT are about emulating movies and pulp tales, so the cinematic aspect is more about the high drama, thrills and chills, and so on.

Yeah, it's a system that was designed with over-the-top heroics in mind. My Dogs of W*A*R experience was reminescent of stuff like the A Team or GI Joe. A lot of fun, but gritty it is not.

Quote from: 3rik;940581Yeah, it's a system that was designed with over-the-top heroics in mind. My Dogs of W*A*R experience was reminescent of stuff like the A Team or GI Joe. A lot of fun, but gritty it is not.

So what are gritty universal systems? BRP?

Quote from: jan paparazzi;940600So what are gritty universal systems? BRP?

Phoenix Command

Quote from: jan paparazzi;940600So what are gritty universal systems? BRP?

Much as I like BRP, it's at least medium;).

Pocket Universe by Jeff Dee and, surprisingly, Classic Traveller, would fit the bill. I mean, the example NPCs in a Classic Traveller supplement include John Carter, except the name is not mentioned for copyright reasons:D!

So let me get this straight: I played a lot of nWoD. That system would not only be rules medium, but it would probably be medium on the scale of grittyness as well. I always thought it was pretty gritty, but maybe I was wrong.

Wait a min, I played Warhammer Fantasy. That was pretty gritty. I guess gurps and Hero are pretty gritty as well. That leads me to the conclusion that most gritty systems are pretty heavy as well. With the possible exception of brp/runequest.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;940600So what are gritty universal systems? BRP?

GURPS - G is for Grit if you don't give PCs excessive points and don't use the Cinematic optional rules, and more grit if you use the realistic optional rules.

TFT is gritty and pretty simple but it's not really universal - it's medieval fantasy with a few unreliable gunpowder weapons. However there are modern versions (wild west and sci fi) of the recent 3rd party version from Dark City Games (which is so rules light it's rules shorthand, and I'd recommend reading/using the TFT rules and just taking the DCG gun/sci-fi bits as extras, but it's really really light).

Traveller is gritty and technically a universal system as far as tech level goes, though really it's a sci fi game which includes lower tech places but doesn't have  a lot for them.

Quote from: Skarg;940706Traveller is gritty and technically a universal system as far as tech level goes, though really it's a sci fi game which includes lower tech places but doesn't have  a lot for them.

The version I mentioned doesn't have a lot of setting info for anything, really:). And you can just homebrew your Barbarian careers if you want to start with a native character, there's a file with blank careers for the Cepheus Engine.

If you want less homebrewing, just combine Worlds Apart, Orbital and the Cepheus Engine/MgT1e, and you can have pretty much any tech level;).

The more I think of it the more I like those skill packages. You can easily swap them if you want to use a different setting. BoL might be too cinematic, but I think the d100 light system is a lot grittier. I will probably use it for a modern game first, so the spy game will do.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;940734The more I think of it the more I like those skill packages. You can easily swap them if you want to use a different setting. BoL might be too cinematic, but I think the d100 light system is a lot grittier. I will probably use it for a modern game first, so the spy game will do.

I never said it was too "cinematic", juist that it's not gritty so may not be suitable for everything you want to run. I guess leaving out or limiting the use of Hero Points will lower the undeadliness a bit but I haven't given this a try.

Quote from: 3rik;940866I never said it was too "cinematic", juist that it's not gritty so may not be suitable for everything you want to run. I guess leaving out or limiting the use of Hero Points will lower the undeadliness a bit but I haven't given this a try.

BoL can be pretty deadly, considering the small pool of health you have. If I were to adapt it as a universal system, I'd use a lot of the material in Barbarians of the Aftermath, which has weapons & equipment from different tech levels. The only thing BoL doesn't really have is a standard bestiary. The Mythic rules have the creatures of the S&S setting that comes with it. There are also general rules for creature creation.

Quote from: 3rik;940866I never said it was too "cinematic", juist that it's not gritty so may not be suitable for everything you want to run. I guess leaving out or limiting the use of Hero Points will lower the undeadliness a bit but I haven't given this a try.

I guess I can run fantasy and scifi with it. How about horror?

Quote from: cranebump;940891BoL can be pretty deadly, considering the small pool of health you have. If I were to adapt it as a universal system, I'd use a lot of the material in Barbarians of the Aftermath, which has weapons & equipment from different tech levels. The only thing BoL doesn't really have is a standard bestiary. The Mythic rules have the creatures of the S&S setting that comes with it. There are also general rules for creature creation.

Gr8, I will get those as well. Fun thing about all these rules light games is they are very cheap. Isn't that the issue about the OSR as well? Rules light, setting light, focus on playing (instead of reading) and practical?

Quote from: jan paparazzi;940924Gr8, I will get those as well. Fun thing about all these rules light games is they are very cheap. Isn't that the issue about the OSR as well? Rules light, setting light, focus on playing (instead of reading) and practical?

Well, that's everything I look for, to be sure.:-) I hesitate to say, "Yup, that's the OSR," because ZOWEE do the arguments start after that (and I just said zowee...something no real man should ever say).

Quote from: cranebump;940929Well, that's everything I look for, to be sure.:-) I hesitate to say, "Yup, that's the OSR," because ZOWEE do the arguments start after that (and I just said zowee...something no real man should ever say).

WTF is ZOWEE, since Google only finds some kind of enterprise:)?