Bludworth:
1. Spoiler that shit.
2. Jesus Fucking WEPT, if you're going to post 18 pages, at least spend a minute to pull all the 28w, Profile Photo and Signature lines out.

That's just unreadable.

Quote from: Bluddworth;940316I seem to be over complicating a combat action, or perhaps it is that complicated.  Here is the relevant information:

My character is attacking an NPC with a broadsword.  NPC has same weapon.  

*ka-snip!*

er... Thats not solo Role playing. Thats effectively solo board gaming.

Can the rules handle talking to NPCs without a DM? Is there an actual built in solo oracle type system?

The best conan system is already out there. It's called CONAN: The Board Game.

Much better at emulating the genre.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;940367The best conan system is already out there. It's called CONAN: The Board Game.

Much better at emulating the genre.

Sorry but I disagree. The Boardgame is pretty fun, sweet presentation but hardly recreates the genre.

Quote from: CRKrueger;940328Bludworth:
1. Spoiler that shit.
2. Jesus Fucking WEPT, if you're going to post 18 pages, at least spend a minute to pull all the 28w, Profile Photo and Signature lines out.

That's just unreadable.

Sorry about that, I was posting from an IPad, but I'll clean it up when I get to my computer.

Most of my complains about the 2d20 system are completely subjective and a matter of personal preference.  I do not like OOC mechanics.  Most of all, I do not like games that force OOC decisions on the players, and I do not like games with big meta-game economies especially if they cannot be removed from the system.  The FATE system has a big meta economy, and is generally considered a "narrative" style game.  However, it can be played IC.  There are no mechanics that force you to play OOC in FATE, but there are mechanics that FORCE you to play OOC in 2d20.  MY point is that 2d20 far more more narrativist and gamist than FATE ever was.  I don't begrudge Bluudworth, rgrove, or anybody else for enjoying it, but it does suck for me that there is a new "ultimate adaptation" of my favorite IP that cannot even be played as a traditional RPG.

However, some of my complaints are that the game, regardless of mechanical preferences, suits the genre poorly.

Quote from: rgrove0172;940440Sorry but I disagree. The Boardgame is pretty fun, sweet presentation but hardly recreates the genre.

2d20 Conan doesn't recreate the genre either.  

In 2d20 you can up your chances of success and do super cool things by tempting the universe (taking extra dice in exchange for doom points).  If your character dares to tamper with the cosmic balance of the universe, he can do super heroic things in exchange for a Karmic backlash that will come to haunt him later.  Hmmm...  Since when is REH about cosmic fairness, karma, fate or balance?  Since when does it make sense for a character to go beyond his own mortal abilities by choosing to take unforeseen repercussions administered by the cosmos?  Never.  It's a stupid meta game mechanic that has nothing to do with the genre.  In fact, it is antithetical.  In Conan, a man takes his skills and resources and pits them against an unfair and uncaring universe.  However, in 2d20 the player is constantly making this bargain with the universe. It doesn't fuckin fit.

In 2d20 you can barrow your friends' successes.  So if one character gets an amazing success sneaking up on the bad guys, the power of that success floats out into the universe as momentum, which I can then snatch out of the air to aid my sword arm in battle, or to help me swim even though my character can't swim.  What exactly does that intrinsic mechanic represent in REH's Hyborian Age?

In 2d20 any PC can succeed at almost any task, regardless of what his strengths and weaknesses on his character sheet are, simply by playing the meta game of momentum and doom.  Besides the fact that it ensures a constant flow of meta game munchkinism and the narrative power of the PCs to always triumph, it removes the sense of mortal struggle, that a man survives by his wits, the strength of his arm and sharpness of his steel, that so pervades REH's stories.

For me it is not just that the mechanics are unplayable as a traditional RPG due to forced OOC metagame mechanics (I enjoy other types of games as well), but that this "ultimate Conan RPG" does an awful job at reflecting Howard's stories and themes.  This is not the fault of Jason D or the many talented writers, artists, and scholars working for Modiphius.  I'm sure they are plying their considerable talent to adapt as best they can.  It is simply that the basic structure of the 2d20 rules, which were chosen non-negotiably as the house system for the "ultimate" Conan game, are a bad fit for REH's Hyborian Age.

I am done ranting.  It seemed obligatory.

...of course, I also bought the entire line via KS. I am hoping for adventures, npcs, monsters, setting details, plots, and general inspiration.  If I don't find any of that (and I think I will), I'll be selling it off in short order.

Quote from: Madprofessor;940471but it does suck for me that there is a new "ultimate adaptation" of my favorite IP that cannot even be played as a traditional RPG

These Conan stories are public domain. Of course there is a problem on what you call it as Hyboria, Conan, etc are trademarked for games by other people. But the core is in the public domain.

Unfortunately stuff like fate points isnt new to Conan RPGs. This goes wayyyyyy back to 84 and the AD&D Conan modules. Those introduced Luck points that you could use to do things like make an extra attack, perform some physical feat, KO someone, etc. The trick was the player did not know how many points they had nor how many a given task might need to succeed. Up to and including doing stuff outside the rules or killing an opponent in one blow.

Quote from: Madprofessor;9404712d20 Conan doesn't recreate the genre either.  

In 2d20 you can up your chances of success and do super cool things by tempting the universe (taking extra dice in exchange for doom points).  

And that's the key point:  In a Sword and Sorcery world, the Universe DOESN'T CARE.  You can't affect it in anyone's favour, because you are beneath it, an inconsequential, ambulatory bag of water that can die at any time, and the universe will continue on without ever noticing.

That's a key element, because Howard and Lovecraft ascribed to the same universal ideal and shared letters and ideas.  So this OOC mechanic to manipulate the Universe is pure anathema to a Conan Sword and Sorcery style game.

Quote from: estar;940477These Conan stories are public domain. Of course there is a problem on what you call it as Hyboria, Conan, etc are trademarked for games by other people. But the core is in the public domain.

In AUSTRALIA they are by LAW there.  Not in the rest of the world.  Although technically, they should have been public domain since the 1960's (I THINK it's 1964, given my calculations) but Paradox claims otherwise, and their legal department has managed to bully the rest of the world into believing them.

I think I see where some of the difference in viewpoint may be coming from. Id you view the essence of Howard's stories as taking place in a cold uncaring and ultimately materialistic universe where only skill, wits and fickle luck matter then OOC elements for protagonists will probably seem out of place for you. If you view the stories as high octane adventure tales where the protagonist(s) do extraordinary things you survive even succeed to a degree that indicate some meta setting favor like in other pulp fiction then the OOC elements likely work fo you. Unfortunately, they seem to mutually incompatible points of view.

Quote from: Madprofessor;940471Most of my complains about the 2d20 system are completely subjective and a matter of personal preference.  I do not like OOC mechanics.  Most of all, I do not like games that force OOC decisions on the players, and I do not like games with big meta-game economies especially if they cannot be removed from the system.  The FATE system has a big meta economy, and is generally considered a "narrative" style game.  However, it can be played IC.  There are no mechanics that force you to play OOC in FATE, but there are mechanics that FORCE you to play OOC in 2d20.  MY point is that 2d20 far more more narrativist and gamist than FATE ever was.  I don't begrudge Bluudworth, rgrove, or anybody else for enjoying it, but it does suck for me that there is a new "ultimate adaptation" of my favorite IP that cannot even be played as a traditional RPG.

However, some of my complaints are that the game, regardless of mechanical preferences, suits the genre poorly.



2d20 Conan doesn't recreate the genre either.  

In 2d20 you can up your chances of success and do super cool things by tempting the universe (taking extra dice in exchange for doom points).  If your character dares to tamper with the cosmic balance of the universe, he can do super heroic things in exchange for a Karmic backlash that will come to haunt him later.  Hmmm...  Since when is REH about cosmic fairness, karma, fate or balance?  Since when does it make sense for a character to go beyond his own mortal abilities by choosing to take unforeseen repercussions administered by the cosmos?  Never.  It's a stupid meta game mechanic that has nothing to do with the genre.  In fact, it is antithetical.  In Conan, a man takes his skills and resources and pits them against an unfair and uncaring universe.  However, in 2d20 the player is constantly making this bargain with the universe. It doesn't fuckin fit.

In 2d20 you can barrow your friends' successes.  So if one character gets an amazing success sneaking up on the bad guys, the power of that success floats out into the universe as momentum, which I can then snatch out of the air to aid my sword arm in battle, or to help me swim even though my character can't swim.  What exactly does that intrinsic mechanic represent in REH's Hyborian Age?

In 2d20 any PC can succeed at almost any task, regardless of what his strengths and weaknesses on his character sheet are, simply by playing the meta game of momentum and doom.  Besides the fact that it ensures a constant flow of meta game munchkinism and the narrative power of the PCs to always triumph, it removes the sense of mortal struggle, that a man survives by his wits, the strength of his arm and sharpness of his steel, that so pervades REH's stories.

For me it is not just that the mechanics are unplayable as a traditional RPG due to forced OOC metagame mechanics (I enjoy other types of games as well), but that this "ultimate Conan RPG" does an awful job at reflecting Howard's stories and themes.  This is not the fault of Jason D or the many talented writers, artists, and scholars working for Modiphius.  I'm sure they are plying their considerable talent to adapt as best they can.  It is simply that the basic structure of the 2d20 rules, which were chosen non-negotiably as the house system for the "ultimate" Conan game, are a bad fit for REH's Hyborian Age.

I am done ranting.  It seemed obligatory.

...of course, I also bought the entire line via KS. I am hoping for adventures, npcs, monsters, setting details, plots, and general inspiration.  If I don't find any of that (and I think I will), I'll be selling it off in short order.

I dunno, I think its all a matter of perception. I can recall many scenes in REH's stories (Conan's and others) were the "hero slips on a pool of blood" or "barely catches hold with his finger tips" or "has an enemy's blow glance off his armor as he turned" etc. (Quotes are not direct) The action appears to the reader to be a matter of fate, luck or whatever - be it beneficial or detrimental. Nobody is measuring to see if they even out but it seems obvious that sometimes "shit" just happens without the direct influence of the character's ability/skill/desire etc. There is another element there, some other force at work.

Conan's company of mercenaries is fired on by enemy archers and scores drop in the metal rain, but not the Cimmerian, somehow he only takes a shaft in the thigh which he shrugs off. Conan's ship goes down in flames and his crew drown but not him, he wakes up on the shore sun burnt and exhausted but alive. Conan is about he eaten by wild wolves but suddenly an old tomb entrance appears granting him an unexpected and miraculous escape. Howard's stories are full of this kind of stuff and sure, you can explain it any number of ways but who cares? The point is the 2d20 system allows for it to be recreated in the game, which I think was most likely the point.

I can agree that it may well be directed at permitting each game to recreate a Hyborian tale rather than presenting a simulation but personally Im ok with that. Why am I interested in playing a game based on Howard's work? Because I read and enjoyed Howard's work and would like to take part in something similar to it. I get that others may have a different vision of what they want to get out of it but I would think most fans of the genre would be ok with a mechanic that allows the action on the table to more or less imitate the stories.

Quote from: rgrove0172;940494I dunno, I think its all a matter of perception. I can recall many scenes in REH's stories (Conan's and others) were the "hero slips on a pool of blood" or "barely catches hold with his finger tips" or "has an enemy's blow glance off his armor as he turned" etc. (Quotes are not direct) The action appears to the reader to be a matter of fate, luck or whatever - be it beneficial or detrimental. Nobody is measuring to see if they even out but it seems obvious that sometimes "shit" just happens without the direct influence of the character's ability/skill/desire etc. There is another element there, some other force at work.

Conan's company of mercenaries is fired on by enemy archers and scores drop in the metal rain, but not the Cimmerian, somehow he only takes a shaft in the thigh which he shrugs off. Conan's ship goes down in flames and his crew drown but not him, he wakes up on the shore sun burnt and exhausted but alive. Conan is about he eaten by wild wolves but suddenly an old tomb entrance appears granting him an unexpected and miraculous escape. Howard's stories are full of this kind of stuff and sure, you can explain it any number of ways but who cares? The point is the 2d20 system allows for it to be recreated in the game, which I think was most likely the point.

I can agree that it may well be directed at permitting each game to recreate a Hyborian tale rather than presenting a simulation but personally Im ok with that. Why am I interested in playing a game based on Howard's work? Because I read and enjoyed Howard's work and would like to take part in something similar to it. I get that others may have a different vision of what they want to get out of it but I would think most fans of the genre would be ok with a mechanic that allows the action on the table to more or less imitate the stories.

That's just the problem some see with it: Imitating the Stories, literally, as in an OOC, 4th-wall breaking, decision-making process that creates something that Howard could have written.  People for whom roleplaying is really roleplaying plus storytelling will love it I expect.

Hell, my players loved it for what it was, it's just not what they want from a roleplaying game.
Mobs are still totally worthless in the system and Zones are absolute shit, but that crap can be removed.

To be honest, the Solo-play for the purposes of creating a Story makes perfect sense in this system.

Quote from: rgrove0172;940494I
I can agree that it may well be directed at permitting each game to recreate a Hyborian tale rather than presenting a simulation but personally Im ok with that. Why am I interested in playing a game based on Howard's work? Because I read and enjoyed Howard's work and would like to take part in something similar to it. I get that others may have a different vision of what they want to get out of it but I would think most fans of the genre would be ok with a mechanic that allows the action on the table to more or less imitate the stories.

It  can be seen as taking a more of an authorial stance or perspective Not an absolute one, IMO, but more of one and I don't usually feel that way about hero points and similar things. It feels more like nudging probability and other factors to produce something feels like a Howard story or similar pulp fantasy story. But if your goal is something more pure simulation end of the spectrum that might not be desirable.

fucket. I"m gonna flog my brand new thread on Modiphius's Mutant Chronicles. I do imagine a large number of my comments about their take on Conan will be more than applicable.  It'll be like looking in a crystal ball.

In an ironic twist, the 'narrative' mechanics totally work for Star Trek Adventures, but the combat system doesn't.

Quote from: estar;940221Using a wargame, which a tabletop RPG is, as a engine for creating collaborative stories is cumbersome, slow, and often just plain doesn't work due to players trying to compete with each other for control.

Yeah, RPGs aren't a wargame, but we've already had that talk. What's more, the reason players keep competing with each other for control is because they can't get past that assumption.

Quote from: Madprofessor;940471There are no mechanics that force you to play OOC in FATE, but there are mechanics that FORCE you to play OOC in 2d20.

#Bullshit

The same things which keep Fate from being OOC are the same things which keep 2d20 from being OOC.