Quote from: K Peterson;940154I wasn't that fond of the rules bloat that came along what I'd refer to as over-complicated abstraction.

That's my problem with the system. I'm pretty easy going with with the whole trad/narrative divide. I can play games on either side of the divide if I like the design,  but I have an aversion to narrative games that double down on crunch.

There are so many types of rolls and ways to modify the rolls, adjusting the odds and adding dice to your pool. I'm spending so much time min-maxing my rolls that I don't get into the narrative. I had the same problem with Cortex Plus.

When I read the first couple of pages of the 2D20 system I thought it reminded me of a simpler version of Cortex Plus, and I was intrigued. Then the rules went on. And on. And on.

I'm not saying I want my narrative games to be freeform, but there are much lighter, functional systems out there. They have a Star Trek game coming up. Star Trek works well in a narrative system as it relies on a certain amount improvised technobabble. Still, I can handle that with GUMSHOE using Ashen Stars with the occasional quick point spend, rather than stopping the story to carefully construct the optimal dice pool.

Quote from: Sommerjon;940172Is this where I poke at you about old schoolers for all their talk about immersion, choice, and surprise are fucking obsessed with the +mods they can get?

If the game is well-designed or the referee is good then there would be no difference in trying to qualify for various modifiers than trying to place yourself at a tactical advantage as if you are really there.

Quote from: estar;940180If the game is well-designed or the referee is good then there would be no difference in trying to qualify for various modifiers than trying to place yourself at a tactical advantage as if you are really there.

So when the +mod is good enough, you have zero issues making up a story as why your toon wants it.

Some real good twisting there fella

Ive never taken issue with OOC narrative mechanics, we were using "Fate Points" with AD&D back in the 80s to allow changes to the environment, NPC intervention etc. Our take was, and still is, that heroes tend to have things go their way more often. If that means we are storytellers or whatever I wont argue too much against it but can honestly say we don't see it that way, its just another element of the game.

Some of the resource management stuff in RPGs makes the "Game" part of the experience more involved and to some more fun I guess. Im pretty centered on the roleplaying first and game aspect second but I can deal with it if its done right.

Quote from: Sommerjon;940191So when the +mod is good enough, you have zero issues making up a story as why your toon wants it.

Some real good twisting there fella

A longbow is not going fire an arrow ten miles regardless of bullshit you give the referee. If a guard is taking a piss in the wood and managed to position behind him it going get a better chance to hit than if he was actively defending against me.

It about using your fucking common sense as to how the setting works and the referee being fair enough to give you a bonus when you done things right. And too penalize you when you put your character in a bad situation.

Quote from: rgrove0172;940216Ive never taken issue with OOC narrative mechanics, we were using "Fate Points" with AD&D back in the 80s to allow changes to the environment, NPC intervention etc. Our take was, and still is, that heroes tend to have things go their way more often. If that means we are storytellers or whatever I wont argue too much against it but can honestly say we don't see it that way, its just another element of the game.

It a spectrum, there is no bright line that divides one from the other. In general, you have to look at the group as a whole. Is about creating a story? Or the experience of being the character you created. Even then it be a mix of both.

And from refereeing 30 years, the general trend is to use meta gaming mechanics to one's advantage. I rarely see it a player use it to complicate the lives of their own character. It often used a magic jelly bean to help the player get his character out of a jam.

Sorry to rain your narrative parade but you want to make stories together there are better ways. As an activity collaborative story telling dwarfs tabletop roleplaying. There are thousands of sits devoted to it, and people have come up with all kinds of ways of streamlining it into a enjoyable activity. Just google it.

Using a wargame, which a tabletop RPG is, as a engine for creating collaborative stories is cumbersome, slow, and often just plain doesn't work due to players trying to compete with each other for control. Note it does work for some.

In contrast it a much better use of the time to treat tabletop RPGs has a pen & paper virtual reality. Focus on pretending to be a character within the setting of the campaign. Picture things as if you are there. Note this is not the same as acting as a different personality. It work even if you roleplay a version of yourself with the abilities of the character as most do.

On the referee side the same thing applies, run the campaign with a focus on presenting it as if the setting really existed. And again this has nothing to with realism, if you don't care how feudal lords acted and instead go hollywood medieval that fine. It just a setting where the lords act like they do in hollywood movies.  

If your vision of King Arthur is Sean Connery's version in his film then by all means use that. But run the campaign as if the players are really standing before his character, don't try to replay the movie. Will this play out the movie, of course not, but if you roleplay well the players will come away feeling like they experienced dealing with that version of King Arthur. That what you are shooting for.

The same with a Conan RPG, it is tool to experience what it like to have interesting adventures in world of Hyboria like Conan did. It not a tool for generating new stories in Hyboria.

Quote from: estar;940221It not a tool for generating new stories in Hyboria.

Not according to Modiphius.

Quote from: rgrove0172;940216Ive never taken issue with OOC narrative mechanics, we were using "Fate Points" with AD&D back in the 80s to allow changes to the environment, NPC intervention etc. Our take was, and still is, that heroes tend to have things go their way more often. If that means we are storytellers or whatever I wont argue too much against it but can honestly say we don't see it that way, its just another element of the game.

Some of the resource management stuff in RPGs makes the "Game" part of the experience more involved and to some more fun I guess. Im pretty centered on the roleplaying first and game aspect second but I can deal with it if its done right.

Its definitely a spectrum of preference. I tend to see rpgs as creating an immersive unfolding story. IOW, the story is what takes place during the game hut I prefer that story resemble the sort of stories you'd see in fiction of the same nature. Narrative mechanics are one way of helping acheive that. Buy in and getting everyone on the same page are others. I prefer a certain degree of OOC mechanics but its not a hard line with a definite too much. I'm generally okay with "Hero points" and similar bennies since they reflect a basic premise of heroes (in the sense of primary characters) uaually  being less suscpetible to the dumb luck and similar things. Beyond that its a case by case basis.

Quote from: CRKrueger;940224Not according to Modiphius.

And for me, as someone who didn't know about the 2d20 system before the Quickstart, is not what I wanted in a GAME.

Quote from: rgrove0172;940073I blew a wad on the kickstarter for Modiphius Conan and as a lifetime avid fan of REH cannot wait for the first hardcopies to arrive.

Ive heard quite a bit of negative chat on the system however and read through some older posts here on the forum but Im wondering if through development any of that negative hype has changed?

I played the quick start rules a bit and found them engaging, not perfect by any means but fairly suitable for the genre and from what I hear they have only improved with play testing.

Whats your take?

I have found that this game is the only PnP RPG that I actually enjoyed playing solo, yes completely solo, as I tested out the game.  I can definitely see using it this way to write my short stories, using my character(s) going through various game situations.  

The one thing I pointed out quite some time ago, was that I misinterpreted the display system and I thought my use of the system was more cinematic than the way the developers planned for the system to be used.  

I can't wait to get my hands on the completed system and then I will run some one-shot mini scenarios on Google Hangouts and I'll upload them to YouTube for others to appreciate the game.

Quote from: CRKrueger;940224Not according to Modiphius.

Or players and GMs wishing to use it that way.

Quote from: Bluddworth;940298I have found that this game is the only PnP RPG that I actually enjoyed playing solo, yes completely solo, as I tested out the game.  I can definitely see using it this way to write my short stories, using my character(s) going through various game situations.  

The one thing I pointed out quite some time ago, was that I misinterpreted the display system and I thought my use of the system was more cinematic than the way the developers planned for the system to be used.  

I can't wait to get my hands on the completed system and then I will run some one-shot mini scenarios on Google Hangouts and I'll upload them to YouTube for others to appreciate the game.

No need to clarify solo play, as has been picked apart at length here I am an avid solo roleplayer. In all likelihood Conan will be expressly enjoyed this way as I don't have players available that are interested. Not an issue for me however as it will allow a more thoughtful, contemplative and slower approach to the game where I can concentrate on the details of the setting.

Please post the Conan solo play reports when you do them.

Quote from: Spinachcat;940314Please post the Conan solo play reports when you do them.

I seem to be over complicating a combat action, or perhaps it is that complicated.  Here is the relevant information:

My character is attacking an NPC with a broadsword.  NPC has same weapon.  

My character relevant stats:

Brawn = 13
Melee = 15 with a Focus and Expertise of 4.

Bandit stats:

Brawn = 9
Melee = 10 with Focus / Exp of 1
Vigor = 5
Resolve = 4
Armor = 1 to all

My first attack:

Hit Location = Torso
d20 result = 3
d20 result = 4

Both are at or below Focus so 4 success, where only 1 need = 3 momentum

Damage Dice (x 8 / 5 for weapon + 3 for Brawn)

D1 = 2 for 2 pts
D2 = 6 for 1 pt + effect (parry)
D3 = 4 for 0
D4 = 4 for 0
D5 = 2 for 2 pts
D6 = 1 for 1 pt
D7 = 5 for 1 pt + effect (parry)
D8 = 1 for 1 pt

Total = 8pts + 2 effects of parry + Traits = 9pts + 3 effects + Momentum = 9 pts + 1 Wound + 3 effects ( 3 x Parry, 1 Vicious)

Traits:

No Mercy - Reroll CD = to total of Melee traits + Trait levels (3)
Blood on Steel = Add 1 Vicious effect for cost of 1 momentum
Killing Strike = add 1 Wound at cost of 2 Momentum

Rerolling CD:  Questions

Do I have to reroll all three?
Do I pick which three?
Do I have to decide how many I reroll before rolling?

For argument sake, I reroll three (3)  

D3 = 3 for 0
D4 = 6 for 1 pt + effect
D8 = 1 for 1 pt

Momentum Spend = 3 points

Vicious +1 pt damage
Killing + 1 Wound

Attack total before Opponent Soak / Defense:

9 pts + 1 Wound + 4 effects (Parry) + 1 Wound  - 1 for Armor

8 points of Damage to Bandit with 5 Vigor

Bandit has -3 Vigor (incapacitated) 1 wound from hit + 1 wound from trait

If Bandit could withstand only 1 wound = Dead with second wound
if Bandit could withstand 2 wounds, then would be at 0 wounds + additional -3 vigor (still dead?).

Note -  I used a Dice rolling app to simultaneously roll the 3d20 + 8d6 but this seemed to be quite a bit of calculating for one attack, and I did not even get to look at the NPCs response because I suspected this would be a one shot incap or even kill.  

Did I miss anything?






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David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
+1
Looking at the Bandits Vigor, he's a minion so he is dead at the first Wound.
Looks like you did everything right except you have a 2 as equaling an Effect on one of your [CD]

And you can reroll up to the three, you don't have to reroll all three if you don't want.
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
oh sorry that was a typo
28w
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Captain Bluddworth
well I used the Pict stats so I don;t think should be a minion, which is why I gave 2 Wound Points.
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
On the reroll, reroll all 8 dice up to three times or reroll just a specific die up to three times?
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David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
The Picts you used are Minions.

Nope, reroll up to three of the Dice, but each one only once.
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Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
ok, that is how I did it.....  Calculating their attack:

There are 3 bandits left, their attacks:

Bandit 1:

Hit Location = 17
D20 Result = 12 = miss

Bandit 2:

Hit Location = 3
D20 Result = 5

D1 = 1 for 1pt
D2 = 1 for 1pt
D3 = 6 for 1pt + effect (parry)
D4 = 3 for 0
D5 = 6 for 1 pit + effect (parry)

Total = 3 pts Damage to R. Arm (SOAK 2) = 1 pt of Vigor loss

Bandit 3:

Hit Location = 18
D20 Result = 10

D1 = 4 for 0
D2 = 3  for 0
D3 = 3 for 0
D4 = 5 for 1pt + effect (parry)
D5 = 2 for 2 pt

Total = 3 pts Damage to L. Leg (SOAK 2) = 1 pt of Vigor loss

28w
David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
That looks correct, but don't forget that the "Parrying" Quality on your sword lets you Parry once for free.

(The Minions don't get Reactions, even though they also have the Parrying Quality... at least that's what we were told during the Kickstarter)
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Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
My second Attack:  

Hit Location = Torso
d20 result = 11
d20 result = 8

Damage Dice (x 8 / 5 for weapon + 3 for Brawn)

D1 = 6 for 1 pt + effect (parry)
D2 = 3 for 0
D3 =6 for 1 pt + effect (parry)
D4 = 4 for 0
D5 = 3 for 0
D6 = 6 for 1 pt + effect (parry)
D7 = 6 for 1 pt + effect (parry))
D8 = 1 for 1 pt

Total = 5pts + 4 effects of parry + Traits = 6 pts + 5 effects

Traits:

No Mercy - Reroll CD = to total of Melee traits + Trait levels (3)
Blood on Steel = Add 1 Vicious effect for cost of 1 momentum
Killing Strike = add 1 Wound at cost of 2 Momentum

No Mercy Rerolls:

D2 = 3 for 0
D4 = 5 for 1 pt + effect
D5 = 4 for 0

Attack total before Opponent Soak / Defense:

6 pts + 5 effects (Parry)  - 1 for Armor

5 points of Damage to Bandit with 5 Vigor

Bandit has 0 Vigor (incapacitated)
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
There are 2 bandits left, their attacks:

Bandit 1:

Hit Location = 20
D20 Result = 20 critical miss

Bandit 2:

Hit Location = 7
D20 Result = 3

D1 = 6 for 1pt + effect (parry)
D2 = 1 for 1pt
D3 = 6 for 1pt + effect (parry)
D4 = 3 for 0
D5 = 6 for 1 pit + effect (parry)

Total = 4 pts Damage to L. Arm (SOAK 2) = 2 pt of Vigor loss

28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
My third attack / spend 2 Momentum for Swift Action

Hit Location = Torso
d20 result = 14 success + momentum
d20 result = 1 success + 2 momentum

Damage Dice (x 8 / 5 for weapon + 3 for Brawn)

D1 = 3 for 0
D2 = 5 for 1 pt + effect (parry)
D3 = 3 for 0
D4 = 5 for 1 pt + effect (parry)
D5 = 4 for 0
D6 = 1 for 1 pt
D7 = 6 for 1 pt + effect (parry))
D8 = 2 for 2 pts

Total = 6pts + 3 effects of parry + Traits = 7 + 4 effects

Traits:

No Mercy - Reroll CD = to total of Melee traits + Trait levels (3)
Blood on Steel = Add 1 Vicious effect for cost of 1 momentum
Killing Strike = add 1 Wound at cost of 2 Momentum

No Mercy Rerolls:

D1 = 3 for 0
D3 = 5 for 1 pt + effect
D4 = 3 for 0

Attack total before Opponent Soak / Defense:

6 pts + 4 effects (Parry)  - 1 for Armor

5 points of Damage to Bandit with 5 Vigor

Bandit has 0 Vigor (incapacitated)

Momentum / Swift Action Spent 2 Momentum prior to first attack:

Final Bandit being attacked:

Hit Location = L Leg
d20 result = 19 unsuccessful
d20 result = 3 success + 2 momentum

Damage Dice (x 8 / 5 for weapon + 3 for Brawn)

D1 = 2 for 2pts
D2 = 4 for 0
D3 = 1 for 1 pt
D4 = 1 for 1 pt
D5 = 5 = 1 for 1 pt + effect
D6 = 4 for 0 pt
D7 = 1 for 1 pt
D8 = 2 for 2 pts

Total = 8 pts + 1 effect of parry + Traits = 9 + 2 effects (parry) effects

Traits:

No Mercy - Reroll CD = to total of Melee traits + Trait levels (3)
Blood on Steel = Add 1 Vicious effect for cost of 1 momentum
Killing Strike = add 1 Wound at cost of 2 Momentum

No Mercy Rerolls:

D2 = 3 for 0
D6 = 6 for 1 pt + effect
D2 = 4 for 0

Killing Strike:  2 Momentum spent for 1 Wound

Attack total before Opponent Soak / Defense:

8 pts + 2 effects (Parry)  + 1 Wound - 1 for Armor

7 points of Damage to Bandit with 5 Vigor

Bandit has -2 Vigor, 2 Wounds  (Dead)

 
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
In Summary it took my character 3 combat rounds to kill or incapacitate four minions ( 2 x kills, 2 x incaps) and the entire action scene cost me 3 Vigor, suffering no Harm (wounds) and expending a total of 7 Momentum (all gained during action scene).

My question is:  What does all that parrying effects do if you never need it?  I suppose against minions with a Soak of 2 and Vigor of 16, never need to come into play.
28w
David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
+1
I don't think you're using parry correctly.
If a weapon has Parrying Quality it means that you may Parry once for -1 Doom (so basically free).
If it's the only Quality a weapon has, then the Effects only add 1 damage, as it doesn't need to be rolled to work.

Also, normally you would place those minions in a Mob, (I think it's called a Horde in the full game), and any damage & Wounds you had left after killing one would go towards killing others... so you could have killed all of them in one or two rounds.
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
Oh, so I could have done a Parry roll for each of their attacks for every Parry Effect I gained.

I wasn't really treating them as Minions because I allowed for them to take 2 Wounds before death and 1 wound + - Vigor left them incapacitated.  

I did notice the Momentum spend of 2 points that would have allowed for me to hit One Target for full damage and a second one for half of that damage, which might have dispatched them faster as well.  

Overall it was kind of fun to run the quick scene and the use of the Dice Rolling App on my Ipad was very useful.
28w
Johannes “Waldgeist” Rebhan's profile photo
Johannes “Waldgeist” Rebhan
+1
You mean a brodesode? (Couldn't resist) https://youtu.be/Cx8sl2uC46A
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
+Johannes Rebhan that was the best 6 minutes I spent all day.  Well, maybe not, but it was good.
28w
David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
+1
+Captain Bluddworth​
Nope, Parrying Quality is entirely detached from rolling Effects.
Instead, if your weapon has it, that means that the Doom cost for Parry is reduced by 1.
This means your first Parry is free, and your second Parry only costs 1 Doom.
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
But don't you have to roll your Parrying skill check to see if it is successful?  Secondly, what if you have multiple effect results of Parry, as I did?  

If for example I have 4 x effects results of Parry.

I get to use one party attempt at no Doom cost.

If I want to attempt to parry a second attack, I could spend two additional party effects to still not cost Doom.

A third attempt would cost 3 effect  

But, I believe rolls should have to be done for determining success or failure,  
28w
David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
+1
Yeah, you still have to roll your Parry test, in a Struggle vs the attacker.

Once again, Effects mean absolutely nothing when it comes to the Parrying weapon Quality. It's a passive Quality that is always active. Just pretend you didn't roll any Effects when it comes to Parrying, because they are only good for the +1 damage (or activating other Qualities if the weapon has more).

Are you using the rules from the chapters that have been released?
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
Yes I'm using the Parry Effect rule from Chapter 6.  All it says is that if you gain the Parry Effect you can Reduce the amount of Doom by 1 to get the extra action of a Parry.  Normally, if you wanted to add an extra action you would have to add 1 Doom or 2 Momentum.  
28w
Luc Pouet's profile photo
Luc Pouet
Parrying is a reaction, not an action. You choose to do it on the opponent turn, and it cost you one doom for the first, two for the second, three for the third..
If you're weapon have the Parrying quality, the doom cost is one less ( So 0 for the first parry. one for the second..)
It is not related with the effect ( as David told you)  it's a passive quality.
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
Yes I understood that, but a roll of your Parrying skill is still needed.  It is not automatic success, and not truly "passive" like for example Vicious adds 1 to damage is passive.
28w
Luc Pouet's profile photo
Luc Pouet
But the roll of your parrying skill have nothing to do with the Parrying quality. You can parry with a weapon without parrying quality, it's just gonna cost you more. And when you roll a parry you do not roll damage dice so no effect involved. Parrying quality just allow to pay one doom less for parrying, and do nothing when you attack with the weapon and roll damage dice if you hit.
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
+Luc Pouet yes I understand it is a reaction, it is like a counter punch just that instead of doing damage it blocks the opponent's Attack.  

28w
David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
+1
+Captain Bluddworth​​
Vicious is not a passive Quality. It requires an Effect to be rolled to activate. It's an activated Quality.
Parrying is passive, in that it does not require an Effect to activate. It is always on. It lowers the Doom cost of Parrying with that weapon by 1. It never gets better than that.
You then still have to roll the Parry test. 
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
I thought that any weapon quality needs for the effect to be rolled for (5 or 6)?  

I think we are getting hung up on semantics, otherwise the rules don't make sense; I'm not making sense of them, or you are not using the correct terminology and explaining it in contradictory terms.  

If I have an Axe with a quality of Vicious, how is that any different from a Broadsword with the quality of Parry?  The Axe does or does not automatically get Vicious?  I believe it has to be rolled from the CD roll of a 5 or 6.  

Where Vicious is passive is that it grants a flat +1 damage, automatically.  Even if you roll a 5 or 6 for the Parry effect, you then have to roll a skill check based on your Parry skill.  
28w
David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
Dude, p.155 bottom right:
"Not all Qualities trigger on the roll of one or more Effects — some provide passive or ongoing benefits, while others inflict alternative Harms — but the majority of Qualities are tied to Effects rolled."

Intense, Parrying, Thrown, and Volley are examples of the Passive Qualities.

I honestly can't explain it any more.
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
+1
They should not use the word "passive" even if the quality has an effect on a skill that must be rolled.  The required skill roll in my mind makes the whole thing Not Passive.  

Vicious is passive because it adds a flat bonus of +1 damage and requires no skill roll for it to be applied.  It is automatic, therefore passive.

"some provide passive or ongoing benefits, while others inflict alternative harms - but a majority of Qualities are tied to Effects rolled"

Does British English have a different definition of "Passive"?  Passive does not mean the same thing as "On Going", or at least not typically so.  

Passive means automatic or without any effort.  Its opposite is obviously "Active" or requires effort.  

"On Going" is like saying "Damage over Time" or that a benefit will continue for some X amount of time or even permanently.  

Again, we may be getting hung up on semantics.
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
I wish to apologize if a negative tone is being read into my words, there is no intent on my part of that.  It is just getting late and I am really play testing the combat system for the first time (using the newly released chapters).  
28w
Luc Pouet's profile photo
Luc Pouet
No problem, lets try with a quick example.
I have a sword with parrying quality. A pict attack me and go first because the gm pay one doom.
I décide to take a reaction ( because it's not my turn). I décide to parry with my sword. Because of its parrying quality, it cost me one doom minus one doom= 0 doom.
The pict roll a flat D20 and get one success. I roll 2D20 ( because i'm a PC)  and get two sucess. I win the struggle, so i sucessfully parryied the pict attack ( and banked one momentum)
End of the story. I never rolled any CD. And i do not need it to use the passive quality of my sword, parrying.
If i had a hatchet instead, i do exactly the same, but i pay one doom to get a reaction parry, because hatchet do not have the passive parrying quality, but the active one vicious, witch activate when i roll an effect ( 5 or 6) on my CD.
Is that more clear this way?
28w
Luc Pouet's profile photo
Luc Pouet
( sorry for possible english mistake. Non native speaker. and btw thank you everybody for this Google group, very helpful for me when i gm this game.)
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
+Luc Pouet I will have to re read the rules but I'm under the impression that qualities are earned from the CD, and the difference between passive and active is whether or not they require a skill roll to be made in order for the quality to be successful.  Parry requires a skill check, there is no doubt of that.  Vicious does not require a skill check, it applies the +1 damage every time you roll a CD result of 5 or 6.  

This is why I believe we are getting hung up on the semantics.  I would reverse the terminology of Parry and Vicious if this is the case.  Parry is more active and not really passive, because of the skill check and struggle associated with it.  Vicious is not active, but passive, because once it is earned from the CD (5 or 6) it is automatically applied to damage, no skill check and no struggle.

Also in your scenario you give the impression that the sword has inherent to it the first parry opportunity before and CD have been rolled by the player.  I did not treat it that way in my example, because my character attacked first and had several parry effects earned before the NPC's turn.  

What I will do in my second running of that scene is use parry properly, as I did not the first time.  I will also dual wield an axe to show how different Vicious is from Parry from the source of weapon qualities.  

By my calculations, considering I use 8 CD with my Broadsword, I could earn as many as 8 qualities of parry effect.

First parry use one effect to negate doom cost = minus 1 effect
Second parry cost 2 effect results to not cost doom = minus 2 effects
Third parry cost 3 effects ......  = minus 3 effects

I can not get a 4th doom free parry, because I only have two effects remaining, but my 4th would only cost 1 doom.  

On the added benefit side the parry skill rolls will produce 6 more opportunities to gain momentum for use during the NPC action turn or to be spent in preparation (declared expenditure) before my second turn.  
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
+Phil Garrad I believe it is a 1:1, then 2:1, then 3:1,,etc expenditure.  Example:

First parry uses one effect to negate doom cost = minus 1 effect
Second parry cost 2 effect results to not cost doom = minus 2 effects
Third parry cost 3 effects ......  = minus 3 effects

I would not call this "on going" because it requires an ever increasing cost to not contribute doom to the doom pile.

28w
Phil Garrad (Venomous Filigree)'s profile photo
Phil Garrad (Venomous Filigree)
I believe it's ongoing as it's always there every round. Yes it only knocks off the total for that round, but next round it's there again...
28w
David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
+Captain Bluddworth​​​
Parrying doesn't cost Effect results. It never costs Effect results. That's why it's called Passive, it's not ever based upon Effect results. It also never gets better than the -1 Doom cost.
If you roll 0 Effects, you still get Parrying. If you somehow roll 443 Effects results with your swords damage, Parrying still only reduces Doom Parry cost by 1.
If you have your sword in your second hand, and instead attack with your Battle Axe this turn, you can still use your sword Parrying to reduce Doom by 1 for a Parry.
If all you are doing is standing there in the middle of combat holding a shield and attacking nothing at all, you can still use the shield's Parrying to reduce Doom for a defend reaction to Parry by 1.

28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
I ran the scene again, this time dual wielding, Broadsword and Throwing Axe.

It still took 3 rounds to kill 2 and incap 2, but the Vicious quality overall did more damage even though the BS gets 2 more CD than the axe.

In this scene I did manage to effectively parry 2 attacks, both the only 2 hits that NPCs scored on me, so that was better than the first run through.

Taking on 4 Picts solo and walking away unscathed is not bad.

As for there not being an Effects cost, than what is the benefit of rolling multiple 5's and 6's on CD?

I thought it was to offset the escalating doom cost of multiple Parry attempts?
28w
David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
There is no benefit for rolling Effects with a weapon that only has Parrying (or any other Passive Quality) except for the 1 damage the 5 or 6 is worth.
However, that doesn't make them worthless because there are Talents (like Blood on Steel) that add Qualities (like Vicious) to those Effect rolls.
28w
Captain Bluddworth's profile photo
Captain Bluddworth
+David Thomas yes I am aware of the Blood on Steel trait, I have it and that is why I found the axe to be superior to the broadsword for that reason.  I'm looking at my character build now to reduce Parry expertise and focus and spend those points elsewhere.  

Dual wielding axes plus spending 4 momentum, two for Swift Action and two for Secondary Target, looks like this will be my go-to tactic for second round (assuming I don't start first round with 4+ momentum).  
28w
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David Thomas
Even better, if you are dual wielding, Swift Action only costs you 1 Momentum.
28w
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Benn Graybeaton
To be honest, you've got a great melee build going on.  Melee builds such as this one will Kill minor NPCs all day every day.  Its nemesis fights that make these characters lives interesting.  
28w
David Thomas's profile photo
David Thomas
Ah, +Benn Graybeaton​ is here. I pass over explanations of Parrying Quality to him.
28w
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Benn Graybeaton
+1
Parrying Quality.  If you have a weapon with the parrying quality and you parry the Doom cost is discounted by 1.  Its called passive because the degree at which the effect functions is static and requires no test.  Its always a discount at the same uniform rate.

Other qualities might activate on effects but Parrying doesnt.

Hope that helps.
28w
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Captain Bluddworth
+Benn Graybeaton thank you, I've finally gotten it past my struggle with the use of the word "passive".  As for the character build, yes it is pretty awesome and even better with dual wielding a battle axe / broad sword.  
28w
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Benn Graybeaton
I like axe/short sword myself.
28w
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David Thomas
Short sword's are cool in this game!

I included the comments from other players who addressed some of my misapplication of parrying mechanic, and I stayed with the somewhat stronger "minions".  This was a play test quite a few weeks or even months before Displays were added.  

Displays are "actions" that you can perform if you have acquired the prerequisites and cost a full action, and return only a small benefit (morale breaking in some circumstances).  I used the Display, once earned as an additional action in the same round (usually at the end of the round).  Example:  Cutting the head off the leader and raising it, before wading into the throng of now demoralized minions.