Hi everyone,

I was really inspired by the recent thread in damage reduction, and I wanted to know if anyone knew the history of the troll Regeneration ability. From what I recall in folklore and Tolkein, trolls never regenerated. That's seems like a Gygax idea. Is it?

I've always enjoyed regeneration as a mechanuc, either in MTG or RPG's.  The idea that something is basically impossible to kill except with extreme measures really captures my imagination. Does anyone else like troll Regeneration?  I've put it into alomost every iteration of my homebrew RPG.

Sometimes I even make regenerating necros.

Let's talk about the glorious and never ending history of troll Regeneration!!!

Quote from: Ashakyre;938743Hi everyone,

I was really inspired by the recent thread in damage reduction, and I wanted to know if anyone knew the history of the troll Regeneration ability. From what I recall in folklore and Tolkein, trolls never regenerated. That's seems like a Gygax idea. Is it?

I've always enjoyed regeneration as a mechanuc, either in MTG or RPG's.  The idea that something is basically impossible to kill except with extreme measures really captures my imagination. Does anyone else like troll Regeneration?  I've put it into alomost every iteration of my homebrew RPG.

Sometimes I even make regenerating necros.

Let's talk about the glorious and never ending history of troll Regeneration!!!

The D&D troll is from Poul Anderson's novel Three Hearts and Three Lions.  The Paladin class is pretty much taken verbatim from that novel as well.

Jesus wept.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;938771Jesus wept.

I dont think thats how trolls started regenerating? :confused: ( )

Closest in mythology is an ogress called Dzunukwa. She regenerated from any damage except fire. But it took ALOT of fire to finally kill her. The description is vaugly like the D&D troll. Probably a coincidence?

I think regeneration is both interesting and difficult to do in a way that satisfies my desire for things to make sense and also withstand clever players. Trolls were an early example for me where I saw people getting into discussions such as:

A: "What happens if you cut a troll up into tiny pieces and separate them over great distances? ... bury the pieces? ... keep cutting them up as they regenerate?"
B: "Well the rules say they keep gaining hit points, so I guess even if there's only one little toe left, it keeps regrowing forever at that rate..."

So I tend to want to detail the mechanics, and prefer them making sense and seeming plausible to being difficult to overcome. The result has been that my trolls almost always die and only really enjoy a brief amount of extra toughness due to healing during combat.

My reading of regeneration was that the center mass was what regenerated and stuff that was cut off didnt. What happened to that cut off stuff. No clue! Too busy running away cause we used up our supplies killing the last two!

Mainly based on the comments in the books about the limb regrowing but no mention of the lost limb growing a new body. So more like a Geko than a planarian or worm. And worms cant double if not cut at specific points.

In my campaign, I have an evil wizard who sells Troll Jerky, since it's essentially a self-replenishing form of meat.

Stolen from the hilarious movie TerrorVision, where there is a survivalist grandfather who does the same thing with lizards.

Hmm, actually thanks to this thread, I'm starting to think of some interesting troll variations and situations where there could be some interesting play around them, but in general, my players have always managed to hack anything that might be a troll to bits with weapons and then burn the remains. Me being an impartial GM tends not to lead to situations where they have much difficulty doing that unless the combat itself is difficult - as with many situations in my games, the tactical situation tends to be the main deciding factor, rather than a particular monster ability.

Some versions of D&D introduce variations, mutations that occur from regenerating a limb.

Like two arms grow instead of one. Or the new head that grows is smarter.

Also though unstated is that trolls eat alot and that is probably to sustain that regeneration. You could probably starve a troll to death.

In my olwn RPG way back Trolls were one of the variations of lizard men which included Trogs and kobolds. Trolls there could regrow limbs. But not loss of the head or catastrophic damage like being cut in half. But they could regrow or heal relatively fast as long as they had a food source.

In an old AD&D campaign we had one DM who played trolls as corrupt tre-ents. Which explained why they could regrow a head since the brain, such as it was, wasnt housed there, and why they were killable by fire.

Pre-3e D&D left things pretty wide open to make of monsters whatever you wanted. And people did as evidinced by the singing troll and other oddities.

Seems like trolls would be well advised to avoid all situations where they can't escape somehow if in danger of losing a fight. Perhaps they could favor places with cliffs or rivers because if they start to be defeated, they could cast themselves off a cliff or into a river and be relatively sure of eventual survival, unlike what tends to happen if they're just lying on the floor with a bunch of humans with a source of fire.

Even in legends of trolls and ogres the trick is sometimes in outsmarting them.

D&D trolls tend to be depicted as really stupid. Usually with less of a society than ogres who tend to be depicted none too bright either.

Theres been instances where they will try to flee to water. But more often they jump the PCs well away from anything that can save them. Though check out the D&D illustration of the troll fleeing from the fighter.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;938771Jesus wept.

"Dad, what was the name of that band Paul McCartney was in before Wings?"

Quote from: Omega;938952Closest in mythology is an ogress called Dzunukwa. She regenerated from any damage except fire. But it took ALOT of fire to finally kill her. The description is vaugly like the D&D troll. Probably a coincidence?

Sounds like Gullveig from Norse mythology. Anyway, there are a bunch of creatures from old stories who can't be hurt by manmade weapons, or will regenerate if they are -up to and including the gods themselves. Prometheus' liver grows back no matter how much a giant eagle eats it. Chronos has to use a blade made of "adamant" to castrate Ouranos, and Perseus needs a similar blade to behead Medusa.

Quote from: Omega;939374Even in legends of trolls and ogres the trick is sometimes in outsmarting them.

D&D trolls tend to be depicted as really stupid. Usually with less of a society than ogres who tend to be depicted none too bright either.

Theres been instances where they will try to flee to water. But more often they jump the PCs well away from anything that can save them. Though check out the D&D illustration of the troll fleeing from the fighter.

Hop-O-My-Thumb tricked an ogre into slitting the throats of his own daughters:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]874[/ATTACH]

Quote from: elfdart;956105"dad, what was the name of that band paul mccartney was in before wings?"

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!  I'm old!

QuoteThe D&D troll is from Poul Anderson's novel Three Hearts and Three Lions. The Paladin class is pretty much taken verbatim from that novel as well.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!