I cant think of an engaging combat system that takes less than 1/2 hr to resolve a challenging group fight.

Quote from: Omega;936856Personal favourites for speed and function.

BX D&D: One table and the fewest moving parts that still gets the job done.
5e D&D: This is a breeze to GM combats for and even large fights tend to clip along nicely even at higher levels.
Dragon Storm: GMed and played this alot and combats flow pretty well. You had all your options laid out with what cards you had and that limits bogging down in choices.

Albedo: probably my hands down favourite for realistic brutal modern combat that rolls along smoothly.
Boot Hill: second favourite for modern combat.

Star Frontiers: This another that I like for SF combat. And its space combat is one of my favourites too.
Gamma World: I liked how this games combat had different weapons have different chances to-hit vs different armour levels. Even with mutations left and right it is still pretty smooth to DM and never bogged down.

As much as I love 5e I can't endorse it as a "fun" combat system because it always starts to drag or become tedious with a lot of combatants or a big boss.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;936895As much as I love 5e I can't endorse it as a "fun" combat system because it always starts to drag or become tedious with a lot of combatants or a big boss.

Hasnt been a problem for us so far and weve done some large battles with no minis or maps and it still flows along pretty good even as we approached 10th level.

Quote from: Omega;936896Hasnt been a problem for us so far and weve done some large battles with no minis or maps and it still flows along pretty good even as we approached 10th level.

Well, that depends. What do you define as slow or tedious. How long did those fights take? Maybe you just have more patience.

Not an endorsement, because I haven't played it yet, but I really want to try Tales of Blades and Heroes... specifically because I really like the miniatures skirmish game it's based on (Song of Blades and Heroes).
Along the same line of how we played a lot of Melee/Wizard... then The Fantasy Trip... and later bought into GURPS.

Quote from: Psikerlord;936894I cant think of an engaging combat system that takes less than 1/2 hr to resolve a challenging group fight.

I have to admit, that I find the requirements in the OP fairly contradictory. I generally lean to combat systems that are fairly quick and simple so the focus stays on the larger story. If combat really is the center of the game though, then I would probably lean towards something would take more than ten minutes.

For me it's GURPS.  Admittedly it only meets criteria at the more basic end of the system and you need to stay away from fully automatic explosive attacks, though, they could very well end a combat in a hurry.

But combat length is very flexible, with the right rolls a combat can end very quickly and with the wrong ones it can draw out indefinitely.

I also like Rolemaster, where combats can be very short indeed!  I find D&D less variable but most D&D fights are pretty slow when high level fighters are involved because the amount of damage they deal doesn't scale up with level the way hit points do.

Quote from: Larsdangly;936890I don't understand all the votes for OD&D and 4E. The first is a great all around role playing game, but you can't seriously tell me it is the thing you would pick if you were going to spend an evening playing gladiatorial combats. I call BS on that - it is just way to basic and monotonous.

As I've run gladiatorial contests with OD&D, I call FU on your BS.

I'm not talking Dude A and Dude B standing next to each other and rolling dice. I'm talking Men & Chariots vs. Monsters and/or mass combats with a team of NPCs of equal level.  No reason any of that would be monotonous or basic...especially if you add in that the crowd must be entertained so PCs must add in some flash and pizzazz.  

Quote from: Larsdangly;9368904E is obviously designed with just this sort of question in mind, but I think it is way, way too slow. I doubt a small group could honestly resolve a fight with a half dozen combatants on a side in less than 1-2 hours. There are just so many special powers and other moving parts.

Its a non issue in Heroic tier with morale rules...if you have players who know 4e and don't dick around acting like each move is some world championship maneuver.

Again, I use morale rules because living things don't want to die.

I ran plenty of 4e at low levels. I didn't like Paragon and I thought Epic was never playtested, but give me 4th to 7th level PCs vs a EL+2 encounter and it will be over in a hour. I used to run 4e RPGA "dungeon delves" at cons and those were 2 hour games involving 2-4 combats and the PC's goal was to get as far as possible before time ran out.  Of course, it was RPGA so the fights were EL or EL+1 (at best), but the advantage was player who knew their PCs and knew the rules with a motivation to play quickly.

If you want a "humane" gladiatorial arena, aka not fights to the death, its easy enough to have rules that once bloodied NPCs (or PCs) can drop their weapons and surrender, and any who attack them lose honor or worse. That would work in a Lawful or Neutral city where life has some value.

But regardless of the system, I run fast combats. If you can't quickly make a decision, I start a 3 finger countdown and at zero, your PC skips their turn. Your job during other player's turns is to decide WTF you want to do and be ready when I call your initiative. That takes some explaining to players....AKA, more reasons I like OD&D because less fiddly bits means players make quicker decisions (mostly).

Quote from: Spinachcat;936931If you want a "humane" gladiatorial arena, aka not fights to the death, its easy enough to have rules that once bloodied NPCs (or PCs) can drop their weapons and surrender, and any who attack them lose honor or worse. That would work in a Lawful or Neutral city where life has some value.

I wonder what that tells us about Rome;).

I don't so much use morale rules as simply assume that most sentient foes will flee or surrender if they're getting their asses kicked.  Skeletons, zombies, berserkers, and chaos warriors fight to the death.  That's one of the things that makes them scary.  If PCs keep killing foes who are surrendering and can't flee, they'll generally make a last stand and I'll play them a lot meaner than I would otherwise.

Quote from: Baulderstone;936915I have to admit, that I find the requirements in the OP fairly contradictory. I generally lean to combat systems that are fairly quick and simple so the focus stays on the larger story. If combat really is the center of the game though, then I would probably lean towards something would take more than ten minutes.

The Fantasy Trip really is consistent with the things I said - tt's a hex-based, battle-map kind of tactical skirmish game, but people get mowed down quickly and anyone who knows how to play can resolve a fight in minutes.  GURPS is a more detailed and thought out version of the same system, certainly better in a 'white room' sort of way, but is definitely slower to play. A simple duel between two combatants who aren't too complicated could probably fit within my criteria; scale it up to a dozen or more combatants and things might get a bit out of control, just because the decision tree in GURPS is a lot bigger, so players tend to drag when managing multiple combatants.

Man-to-Man came to mind as meeting most of your criteria, and as a rules middle-ground between TFT and GURPS.

But, now that I think of it, I don't recall there being any magic present in MtM. I'm pretty sure there were examples of monsters (at least humanoid monster, like orcs), but it's been a long time since I've looked at MtM.

Otherwise, I don't have anything to offer. I don't really play any tactically detailed combat systems now. I dabbled in RQ3, MRQ2, and RQ6 years ago, but I've played more abstracted combat in recent years.

GURPS using hex map and all the rules (prefer my own house rules, then 3e - 4e is ok but I might rather play 2e or 1e than 4e), then TFT with house rules, then TFT.

I can enjoy some other games, but I can't help comparing them to GURPS and TFT.

Quote from: K Peterson;936997Man-to-Man came to mind as meeting most of your criteria, and as a rules middle-ground between TFT and GURPS.

But, now that I think of it, I don't recall there being any magic present in MtM. I'm pretty sure there were examples of monsters (at least humanoid monster, like orcs), but it's been a long time since I've looked at MtM.

Man To Man is just the pre-1e GURPS combat system, with no mental skills. No real rules for magic except of course all the many rules you can add from the various magic systems for GURPS...

But yes, that's still a good answer, because it's a good way to learn the GURPS combat rules without all the noise of rules for other things (especially in 4e).

Oh and yes, there is a nice adventure book for Man To Man called Orcslayer, which has orcs/dwarves/elves and a monster or two, and some decent travel rules. There were also some MtM rules (I think in the newsletter) for Lizard Men and Minotaurs and some ads/disads that all then showed up later in later GURPS places.

I'd say TRoS, Mythras, Spycraft2.0, Fantasy Craft, Spellbound Kingdoms, ORE (Reign and StarORE), Musha Shugyo, Legends of the Wulin and Fight! the Fighting Game RPG are my strongest contenders;).

Quote from: AsenRG;937321I'd say TRoS, Mythras, Spycraft2.0, Fantasy Craft, Spellbound Kingdoms, ORE (Reign and StarORE), Musha Shugyo, Legends of the Wulin and Fight! the Fighting Game RPG are my strongest contenders;).

That's not top dog Asen, that's a pack:)