Quote from: RunningLaser;936577Rgrove- you could always use your experience and write up system neutral guidelines for applying realistic injury results to a game.

You mean something like this?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/92589/Trauma

Quote from: AsenRG;936484I like your approach:).

I keep posting this without having asked permission from Pete & Loz, I should note it's a repeat of the wound conditions from Mythras, with a mostly not-relevant illustration I made for my roll20 game as I kept forgetting the consequences and differences between serious & major, although it's not really that difficult. Afaik it's pretty close to what is in Mythras Imperative, but this is from the full rules.

On the subject of survivability of wounds I remember seeing something about evidence from 'Dark Ages' skulls in the UK - apparently there are numerous skulls found with healed head wounds which show slices of skull missing :eek: which have fully healed. This suggests some fairly nasty head wounds, almost certainly acquired in a battle, which nevertheless have lead to a recovery.

Quote from: AsenRG;936622You mean something like this?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/92589/Trauma

Yup!  Just like that:)

Quote from: AsenRG;936292Or, you know...you could instead have a system that allows both the 1st level and the 10th level character to suffer the same amount of damage. Combat is opposed rolls, followed by a damage roll which could often incapacitate outright. Nothing surprising there, I think?
But if you lose the opposed roll and there's damage about to be suffered, you can reduce it to a flesh wound if you have one of a series of Gifts.

You mentioned Synergy/Blue Planet earlier, and I share your considered judgment of its merits. I did eventually do a cinematic mod with hit points/hero points/ablative plot armor points layered over the wound system for a one-shot game (that turned into more of a four-shot). You lost the opposed roll by 5, you're about to get hit -- spend 5 points of APA or we're resolving damage. It was fast, fun, and created some cool dynamics and cinematic combat tactics ("You might have to let a guy punch you, but you can't let him stab you").

Quote from: AsenRG;936162It was logic such as this that lead me to declare all systems that didn't feature persistent wounds and death spirals as unfit for roleplayers, about a decade ago:D.

Persistent wounds in BH may affect movement as well as Speed and Accuracy. When my character encountered Shotgun Sally outside the Trail Dust, he'd taken a serious (brawling) wound to his leg when he was thrown breaking one of the mustangs. That meant my character could only walk, at half speed, until he rested and recovered the lost strength. Knowing Eladio was slow and shaky wasn't nearly as worrisome as the fact he couldn't run and dodge.

Quote from: Greg Benage;936646You mentioned Synergy/Blue Planet earlier, and I share your considered judgment of its merits. I did eventually do a cinematic mod with hit points/hero points/ablative plot armor points layered over the wound system for a one-shot game (that turned into more of a four-shot). You lost the opposed roll by 5, you're about to get hit -- spend 5 points of APA or we're resolving damage. It was fast, fun, and created some cool dynamics and cinematic combat tactics ("You might have to let a guy punch you, but you can't let him stab you").

"Let someone punch you to avoid a stab" is a fully real tactic, which might be necessary in some situations, though it could backfire:).
However, that post doesn't talk about a Synergy mod, because the Gifts that let you avoid it 1) exist in-universe and 2) are detailed in the system.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;936650Persistent wounds in BH may affect movement as well as Speed and Accuracy. When my character encountered Shotgun Sally outside the Trail Dust, he'd taken a serious (brawling) wound to his leg when he was thrown breaking one of the mustangs. That meant my character could only walk, at half speed, until he rested and recovered the lost strength. Knowing Eladio was slow and shaky wasn't nearly as worrisome as the fact he couldn't run and dodge.

Yes, but even without the system specifics: he had low, low chances due to the wound. If the GM didn't play Shotgun Sally as a real NPC who might, le gasp, feel grattitude, he would have most likely bit the dust.
That's the most important point, with the specific effects of wounds being more system-specific;).

Quote from: AsenRG;936653If the GM didn't play Shotgun Sally as a real NPC who might, le gasp, feel grattitude, he would have most likely bit the dust.
That's the most important point . . .

I need to write that blog post, on 'social skill' in Boot Hill, a game with neither skills nor a 'Charisma' stat.

I think BRP with hit locations turned 'on' (i.e., original runequest) is probably the best compromise between quasi-realism and fussiness when it comes to damage and injury. It is really intuitive and simple to fold into the normal flow of play, outcomes jive with normal human experiences, and the path to keeping yourself alive is heavy armor or being outrageously more skillful than your opponent. That checks all my versimilitude boxes.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;936654I need to write that blog post, on 'social skill' in Boot Hill, a game with neither skills nor a 'Charisma' stat.

Yes, you need to, definitely:)!

Quote from: Larsdangly;936663. . . outcomes jive with normal human experiences . . .

Yeah, that's really what it's about, i'n'it?

If my character gets shot in the arm, I expect him to be slower and less accurate if he uses that arm to shoot. If he gets a lance in the leg, I expect it to slow him down. If he takes a tomahawk to the head, I expect him to be disoriented. If he takes a bunch of wounds, I expect him to be less capable overall. And if he's wounded, I expect him to remain less capable while he heals.

Boot Hill throws all those switches.

Quote from: Omega;936613The rookie took one hit/scrape/near miss/round of combat.

The veteran waded through possibly dozens, or more to get down to their last.

Least in D&D we thought of it as partially a factor of being mentally drained as well as physically exhausted. The low level "kids" bounce back from being trounced pretty quick. But the seasoned warrior needs alot more time to work up the urge to go back at it even.

Or other explanations why. Though in AD&D at least once you hit or pass 30hp everyone heals up the same no matter the level (not counting CON). Also in AD&D the rookie is more likely to go to zero HP which means a whole week of being a bedridden invalid. Or just plain dead in BX.

It may or may not be a good way to design a combat simulation.  However, it's  entirely logical as game design where hit points are a valuable resource, and loss of a valuable resource must incur a penalty.

Let's say we have 2 8th level fighters with 40 HP.  After the dungeon adventure, one has taken 4 HP of damage, the other has taken 24 HP of damage.

The second fighter has lost more of a vital resource than than first, so that fighter must pay a higher penalty to be restored to full function.

Honestly, I stopped worrying about what "hit points" represent years ago.  They represent hit points.

Yes, I've tried more "realistic" combat systems including RQ and several I wrote myself.  I now use OD&D.  I want to play a game of exploration and adventure, not WOUNDING: THE CONVALESENCE.

Mileage and all that.

Quote from: CRKrueger;936616I didn't say there was no difference or overall effect, I said the healing rates were goofy.  If you assume the last few hit points are meat damage before you fall, then those should heal slower then all the Fatigue on top of it.   But, we're finding out that the optimum recovery time for a Marathon runner is what, 6 weeks, so maybe Gary was on to something after all.

Apparently they did do some research. Just not sure how much. But its possible that the longer recovery times for higher level characters equates to the often proportionately longer amounts of time they are getting beat up or in really high danger situations.

Not a good example but compare myself and one of my players. Im a casual biker and tire out pretty quick. But after a breather Im back at it. The other player is a marathon biker who has gone fair distances. But sometimes overdoes it and is then recovering a day or more later. Or boxing comparing an amature who goes down in one punch but is back up in probably a few minutes where as a professional may go for several rounds and then be recovering for possibly days after.

In the end make of it what you will. Theres one or two articles in Dragon on other approaches like a wounds system to determine healing time instead. But personally I dont think that maps to well to the nebulous situational stuff HP is in D&D.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;936673I want to play a game of exploration and adventure, not WOUNDING: THE CONVALESENCE.

And that's why it's great there are all kinds of games out there to choose from. One size most definitely doesn't fit all.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;936673Yes, I've tried more "realistic" combat systems including RQ and several I wrote myself.  I now use OD&D.  I want to play a game of exploration and adventure, not WOUNDING: THE CONVALESENCE.

Mileage and all that.

Pretty much what the original Albedo is too. And I prefer the more nebulous nature of HP as it can be anything really. Thats a great design aspect and its something you see alot through D&Ds early rules. Its hilarious that one of the most narratively open RPGs gets derided by narrativists as being anything but.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;936683

And that's why it's great there are all kinds of games out there to choose from. One size most definitely doesn't fit all.

That should be repeated more often:).