Just knocked up this class for B/X or OSR D&D. Not sure about the name. Duellist isn't quite right, and Finesse Fighter is to on the nose (then again fits with titles such as Fighter and Magic User) so settled for Warrior, but that doesn't quite fight such a wide concept. Anyway here it is . . .

B/X Finesse Fighter - The Warrior


The Warrior is an unarmoured, or lightly armoured, finesse fighter who use speed and skill to overcome their opponents rather than brutes force. Their prime Requisite is Dexterity. A Warrior with a Dex of 13 or higher gains a +5% bonus to XP. A Warrior with ad Dex of 16 or higher gains an XP bonus of 10%.


RESTRICTIONS: A Warrior must a have a minimum score of 9 in Dexterity. They cannot use a shield and may not wear any armour other than Leather Armour.  They can only use spears, swords, short swords, hand axes, and daggers as weapons.


SPECIAL ABILITIES: Whilst wearing Leather Armour Warriors may deduct double their DEX bonus from their AC. Whilst wearing no armour the Warrior may deduct triple their DEX bonus from their AC. When using a one handed weapon Warriors may wield a second off hand small weapon, such as a hand axe, short sword, or dagger, for a defensive bonus of -1 to AC. Warriors gain a +1 bonus to initiative in single combat, and may choose to act first when their party wins group initiative.


Level and Save as Fighter.

I think the issue with the finesse fighter, in general terms, is it overlaps the rogue too much...? Is this version of the fighter different enough from the rogue/thief to make it worthwhile?

Quote from: Psikerlord;932065I think the issue with the finesse fighter, in general terms, is it overlaps the rogue too much...? Is this version of the fighter different enough from the rogue/thief to make it worthwhile?

Well there's no Rogue in B/X and the B/X Thief, apart from back stab, isn't really combat focused.

Seems pretty solid, but I'm not sure why you'd choose to play one over a standard fighter, unless you enjoy like the concept.  The lack of weapon restrictions means a normal fighter will do more damage, on average.  Average AC by level is probably similar, just because a normal fighter is going to get his hands on magic plate after a while.  At very high levels, I suppose this one is more defensive, but it could take a while for that to pay off.  

I'd give this class some kind of dual-wielding bonus to compensate for his lessened offensive punch.  After all, this guy isn't going to use a shield.  An easy one is that he rolls normally to hit, and upon hitting, rolls damage for both weapon and takes the higher one.  Very simple and not a huge bonus.

Quote from: Edgewise;932177I'd give this class some kind of dual-wielding bonus to compensate for his lessened offensive punch.  After all, this guy isn't going to use a shield.  An easy one is that he rolls normally to hit, and upon hitting, rolls damage for both weapon and takes the higher one.  Very simple and not a huge bonus.

Neat idea.

Why not just roll that in with The Fighter?  It's already got restrictions that require you to not wear armour for the best defense for it.

One issue that I have is that almost all of the benefits of this classes abilities come from assuming exceptional ability scores.

B/X characters are rolled 3d6 in order. If you roll average stats then all you have is very weapon/armor restricted fighter with a slight bump to individual initiative.

Key class abilities shouldn't require ability scores of X or higher to function. Look at all the other classes and assume a member of each class has ability scores of 12 in every ability. Does the class still fully function? You bet it does. The only feature of any other class high scores affect is the XP bonus.

Its easy to fall into the WOTC D&D design mentality when thinking up neat abilities but one has to think of the actual system the class will fit into.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;932323Key class abilities shouldn't require ability scores of X or higher to function.

You're 100% right. I need to rework it so that the AC bonus is level based or some other fix.

Quote from: Weru;932395You're 100% right. I need to rework it so that the AC bonus is level based or some other fix.

Or simply accept that armour is your best dodge bonus in D&D.

The Specialist class from LotFP is amazing and can be easily modded to handle an idea like this. For example:

New Specialist Skill

FENCING

Default 0/Maximum 6

Each point provides +1 to hit/-1 to AC in combat. Specialist must be unarmored and unencumbered to use this skill. Requires a suitable weapon (foil, épée, saber, katana, etc.).


Actually, I like that quite a bit. Thanks for the idea!

I'd call it the Swashbuckler because that's basically what it is. I'm not sure about deducting triple the DEX bonus from AC. Double... maybe. I'd consider a flat unarmored bonus which could possibly scale like the 1e Monk but not quite so well. I'd also consider since the hero is swashing the buckle that there could be some additional bonus for using a main gauche in place of a shield. The flat -1 is consistent with using a shield and if AC could be augmented by the value of the enchantment on the main gauche, then all of a sudden that +2 dagger is going to be used all the time. As is mentioned, the benefit to AC should not be dependent on exceptional ability scores. That's why I'd probably try and work a slightly scaling unarmored AC with a flat bonus (which you have) for using a main gauche. That way characters with average ability scores would still benefit.

Quote from: Weru;932029Not sure about the name. Duellist isn't quite right, and Finesse Fighter is to on the nose (then again fits with titles such as Fighter and Magic User) so settled for Warrior, but that doesn't quite fight such a wide concept.

Arcana Evolved had the Unfettered, Iron Heroes had the Harrier.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;932418Or simply accept that armour is your best dodge bonus in D&D.

I'm going to retract this, as although this is true, this isn't actually relevant.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;932323One issue that I have is that almost all of the benefits of this classes abilities come from assuming exceptional ability scores.

B/X characters are rolled 3d6 in order. If you roll average stats then all you have is very weapon/armor restricted fighter with a slight bump to individual initiative.

This is actually another non-issue.  You don't choose your class before you cast the die rolls.  Your die rolls decide what you should be.  If you have a high enough dex to make it work it, you'd take this class.  If you don't, then it's like the later editions of the paladin (Like AD&D needed a 17 Cha to actually be able to become one), no one plays one.

Quote from: Weru;932395You're 100% right. I need to rework it so that the AC bonus is level based or some other fix.

Actually, it's fine as it was, again, because you don't choose the class before you roll the dice, but after.

Quote from: Weru;932029The Warrior is an unarmoured, or lightly armoured, finesse fighter who use speed and skill to overcome their opponents rather than brutes force.

Quote from: Weru;932029SPECIAL ABILITIES: Whilst wearing Leather Armour Warriors may deduct double their DEX bonus from their AC. Whilst wearing no armour the Warrior may deduct triple their DEX bonus from their AC.

* In case I'm being too subtle here, click on Jules for my response to this [strike]steaming pile of shit[/strike] idea.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;932418Or simply accept that armour is your best dodge bonus in D&D.

*dingdingdingDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGFUCKINGDING![/SIZE]*


The End is extremely fucking nigh.