I recently ran a campaign where all of the players were connected via google hangouts and roll20 (roll20 connections can be spotty, so we moved the audio to hangouts).  As the GM, I always included video on my end, but although all the players connected via audio, I allowed them to omit a video feed.  My experience with this is that audio-only gaming doesn't work very well, as players would occasionally become inattentive, and patches of dead air would show up as everyone seemed to be waiting for someone else to speak.  Overall, I believe that this contributed to a low-energy atmosphere, so I disbanded that campaign recently.

In parallel, I started running a monthly DCC campaign which was mostly in-person, with one person connecting via video (which I insisted upon, this time).  The experience was entirely different, with much greater player engagement (some of this is also because DCC kicks ass).  I should mention that both campaigns shared most of the same players, so this wasn't a case of getting a better group.

The one downside was that the online player was less engaged.  I think this had to do with the fact that live audio with crosstalk can get very indistinct, especially with players sitting at different distances from the mic.  I'm hoping I can mitigate this problem by using multiple microphones in the same way a corporate conference call will often rely on several satellite mics when you have a big meeting table.

I just moved the former monthly session to the old slot for our weekly online campaign, and most of it will be in-person, as with the last two sessions.  I'll still have one or two remote players, though, so I hope they can be accommodated by my multiple mic solution.  I haven't had a chance to try it yet, and tomorrow will be the first test of the new setup.

I'm wondering what other peoples' experiences are here.  Has anyone been able to make an audio-only online game work?  Can in-person and online players be integrated effectively into the same session?  Are there procedural solutions to these technical problems?  I hear a lot about people gaming over hangouts these days, but given my experience with it so far, I am skeptical about being able to replicate the in-person experience.  I'd love to hear any tips from more seasoned GMs, but it would also be interesting to just compare with other peoples' experience here.  If I can figure out how to GM effectively online, I could massively increase my pool of potential players, so I'm interested in getting this right.

I've been in an audio-only ICONS: The Assembled Edition campaign for about two years now and an audio-only Mutants & Masterminds Third Edition campaign for about nine months now, both using a combination of Roll20 and TeamSpeak 3.  We too found that Roll20's audio is poor, so that's why we use TeamSpeak 3 in conjunction with Roll20.  We've had absolutely no problems.  I don't have a webcam, but even if I did I don't believe that I would use it.  Audio-only has worked just fine in my experience, and video would be too distracting, IMO.

The only thing I can think of is that the group I normally game with are also all video gamers, who are used to talking with other players over audio while playing games.  So perhaps they're more comfortable with talking on TeamSpeak 3 / Hangouts / Discord / Skype etc.

Quote from: Edgewise;925853I'm wondering what other peoples' experiences are here.  Has anyone been able to make an audio-only online game work?  Can in-person and online players be integrated effectively into the same session?  Are there procedural solutions to these technical problems?  I hear a lot about people gaming over hangouts these days, but given my experience with it so far, I am skeptical about being able to replicate the in-person experience.  I'd love to hear any tips from more seasoned GMs, but it would also be interesting to just compare with other peoples' experience here.  If I can figure out how to GM effectively online, I could massively increase my pool of potential players, so I'm interested in getting this right.

Audio only works fine for me with over 2000 hours on Roll20 and probably a 1000 hours on Fantasy Grounds prior to that. We use hangouts or Skype for audio. As for inattentivness people need to learn it rude to open up another window and go browsing or doing anything else that distract from giving your full attention. Also they need to explain to their family that despite the fact it happening online that they are with a group of people for the next few hours. That it should be treated as if they are having a group of friends over.

With that being said zi not surprising that it not working for you. It has nothing to do with playing tabletop RPGs on line and everything to do with the fact that some groups doesn't handle audio conferencing well wether it is for entertainment or work. It works for most but most is not all. So don't feel bad if after multiple stabs at trying it, it doesn't work for you or your group.

If your group does work with audio conference then the result is interchangeable with what you to face to face if you use a VTT. For perhaps not that if you are one of the rare referee that does everything by voice. However visible dice rolling seems to be a potent social glue so I would use a VTT just for that even if voice dominates your referee style.

VTT are interchangeable with face to face but they are not the same. Fog of War is way better on VTT. With Roll20 you can even set it up so each player has their own point of view with dynamic lighting. Face to face of course allows for normal social interaction with voice and gestures. For me it my primary source of weekly roleplaying with the group getting together at a con or a facility once or twice a year. I do face to face regularly about twice a month with other gamers in my area.

I am skeptical about a face to face game with an online participant but I heard it being done and when it successful it involves the online person using video as well as audio.

Getting back to VTT I find video doesn't add much and prefer to apply the bandwidth to better audio. It probably because everything gets squeezed into,one inch squares that amount to talking heads.

Overall I recommend VTT as a great EXPANSION for your opportunities to game. That it fine to do mostly face to face but I recommend trying it once in a while to get a hang of it so it become a tool for you to use for you need it. For example it now very easy for any particpant in any discussion on this forum to go "Hey let's set a time to game and try what we are talking about." Although are still new enough that this hasn't in as a possibilty yet.

Players have to be in front of their cameras in my Hangout games. No MIC-only nonsense, where they phone-in their role-play. They might as well text-in their actions.

Anyway, computers aren't used during game sessions, other than for video conferencing. So no apps, and no browsing going on during a game.

I don't know what online groups you're playing with, but there's quite a bit of difference between using audio and text-only.  There's a lot that can be conveyed over audio that can not be conveyed over text, at least not anywhere near as easily.

I do both, in terms of online and having players facetime or skype in.

And a good amount of success in both.

Online, I have tried all, but I prefer text only.  For many reasons.  It keeps everyone IC a lot more, less talking over people, the pace is better, especially for adding in the whispers.  One of the great secrets is to use the PCs to deliver some of the scary or spooky environmentals....It is taken completely different when a PC says, "Guys..I hear a hissing laughter down that way"  vs if the GM says it.  
It has worked well for me.  I've run a number of very long-term games this way, and my current Collegium game just hit session 103.  So, we keep people for a long time with this.

My main live game had a player move to Seattle (we are in Boston), so he's been skyping in for the last year, and others who miss also try to skype in.  We tend to wave our wine at him, since I have a better wine cellar, to make him feel bad about his move.

Nope.

I play a 2 -3 hr weekly session online via roll20 and Skype with audio only, and it works well for us. In some ways it is better than meeting in person - quick to set up/end, you can see everyone's rolls on the screen, and the GM can bring up any pic they like, or play ambient music/sound effects on occasion. Most importantly, it allows regular games each week, instead of meeting once/3 months for a big 10 hour session (we still meet in person, but only about 1/six-nine months - and actually half the time we do boardgames etc instead).

Oooooonnn the other hand, combat is generally slower in my experience, and obv you aren't sitting around the table in the usual social way.

I don't think adding video adds all that much, to be honest, but then again, with a better internet connection and larger screen - I might well change my mind!

One thing I believe doesn't work - from experience - is mixing in person around a table and a guy on the computer. It is just too disjointed, imo. We tried it a few times and couldn't get it to work well enough. So it's all or nothing - everyone in person or everyone via Skype/roll20.

Quote from: Psikerlord;929227Oooooonnn the other hand, combat is generally slower in my experience, and obv you aren't sitting around the table in the usual social way.

I haven't noticed combat being slower, if anything I think it's been a bit faster because with an online dice-roller you get around some of the funny ways people deal with dice. Though it might also be because the games I've played online are much less complex than the ones we play in our live sessions (DCC, Mazes & Minotaurs, and Magic World vs. Pathfinder and Earthdawn).

QuoteI don't think adding video adds all that much, to be honest, but then again, with a better internet connection and larger screen - I might well change my mind!

I don't find they add much either. I usually have some other tab or window up (rulebook, character sheet, porn...) and don't look at the video feed at all.
I'm also not big on the wiz-bang mapping Roll20 can do. It can do some really neat stuff (if the account allows it) but it tends to pull the play into more of a boardgame feel... and if the GM doesn't have a good handle on it there can be all sorts of slowdown to deal with technical issues. I favor just having static maps and visuals/handouts... keep things primarily 'theater of the mind'.

QuoteOne thing I believe doesn't work - from experience - is mixing in person around a table and a guy on the computer. It is just too disjointed, imo. We tried it a few times and couldn't get it to work well enough. So it's all or nothing - everyone in person or everyone via Skype/roll20.

I would have thought that, but in our live sessions one of the guys has had his daughter calling in from college and it's worked out just fine. She's a disembodied head at the table, using a dice roller but it became normal really quickly. Maybe it depends on who the digital player is... hopefully not some guy who's AFK when it's not his turn.

Quote from: Simlasa;929248I don't find they add much either. I usually have some other tab or window up (rulebook, character sheet, porn...) and don't look at the video feed at all.
I'm also not big on the wiz-bang mapping Roll20 can do. It can do some really neat stuff (if the account allows it) but it tends to pull the play into more of a boardgame feel... and if the GM doesn't have a good handle on it there can be all sorts of slowdown to deal with technical issues. I favor just having static maps and visuals/handouts... keep things primarily 'theater of the mind'.

Yes I agree - we use roll20 but just for putting up pics, occasional map, and the dice roller. We dont use any of the dynamic lighting or anything like that.