Quote from: rgrove0172;916406Perhaps D&D should have been advertised as a Fantasy Game of Resources and Tactical Challenge?

Originally it was.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]318[/ATTACH]

Quote from: darthfozzywig;916427You seem to not understand the word "objective". That makes any discussion with you rather pointless.



You seem to be confusing roleplaying game with "improvisational theater" and "talking with an accent" and other trappings that some but not all people incorporate into their roleplaying games.

I, for example, incorporate those elements into many of my games, but that does not define what roleplaying is.

I'm not confused at all and "objective' is not a difficult concept but is still subject to opinion.

Quote from: Bren;916446Originally it was.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]318[/ATTACH]

Yep, exactly.

Quote from: rgrove0172;915882How do you describe this in your games?

A) The archer hits you for a single point as your armor soaks up the rest but the spear hits pretty hard, doing 5 more points of damage after armor. That's 6 total. Your down to 9 right?

B) The archer sends a shaft whistling your way and you feel the impact at your side. The arrow doesn't penetrate but youll have a bruise tomorrow. The spear wielding Goblin however works past your shield and with a thrust shoves his weapon hard into your armored midriff, knocking the air out of you. You feel several of the mail links part and stab into your flesh but without its protection you might have been dead right there. Take 6 off your Health.

How much color do you provide in combat exchanges? Are you players happy with a numbers exchange, just the facts or do they dramatize their actions as you do? Do you worry that your descriptions may complicate or confuse? Such as mentioning bleeding or a limp from a wound and not really planning on applying the effect in game terms?

A for me, I don't really go into the "The barbarian's sword hacks through your arm, nearly severing it, with a gush of blood" description. As I normally play RQ-style games, saying that someone's arm is badly injured/severed is enough for me.

Almost always "A", because my players know what those numbers mean and visualize the fight in their mind.

There is a term among the narrative crowd called “fictional positioning”, which more or less means describing a position in-fiction that results in some meaningful impact on the game. Ex: “I trip the enemy so he won’t be able to attack me next turn”. “Ok, so he is on the ground now with no possibility to attack. What do you do now?”.

What you are describing here is the antithesis to that – describing fluff that has ZERO impact on the game. Ex: “The arrow pierces you in the knee sending a huge pain up you leg. You lose 3 Hp”. “So, that means I can’t move now ?” . “Nah, that’s just colorful description. As there is no actual rule for that, you can move normally”. “Oh.. ok”.

I still can’t understand the appreciation for something that just slows the game without having any meaningful impact whatsoever. But hey, that’s your game bro.

Closer to B, since we're running DW, and the fiction is part of play.

Yep, Dungeon World is all about "fictional positioning", making this kind of description an important thing.

Quote from: Itachi;918315Yep, Dungeon World is all about "fictional positioning", making this kind of description an important thing.

Just one of the things that's shitty about it.

Quote from: Itachi;918282There is a term among the narrative crowd called “fictional positioning”, which more or less means describing a position in-fiction that results in some meaningful impact on the game. Ex: “I trip the enemy so he won’t be able to attack me next turn”. “Ok, so he is on the ground now with no possibility to attack. What do you do now?”.

What you are describing here is the antithesis to that – describing fluff that has ZERO impact on the game. Ex: “The arrow pierces you in the knee sending a huge pain up you leg. You lose 3 Hp”. “So, that means I can’t move now ?” . “Nah, that’s just colorful description. As there is no actual rule for that, you can move normally”. “Oh.. ok”.

I still can’t understand the appreciation for something that just slows the game without having any meaningful impact whatsoever. But hey, that’s your game bro.

It may not have an impact on the RULES of the game but the rules are only one part of the experience. Such color has a great deal of impact in describing the scene to players and helping them envision what is going on. If I tell you that "you got hit for 4 HP", you really have no idea what that looks like and have to come up with something on your own. Generally speaking what you come up with in your own imagination will be something like the fluff you are minimizing. If someone asked your character a few minutes later if they were ok, they would likely say something like "Im alright, took on in the shoulder but Ill live" etc. That doesn't mean that we MUST hinder the character's performance by levying a rule affect, they are heroes afterall, but it helps to at least be able to imagine what happened.

Quote from: RPGPundit;918862Just one of the things that's shitty about it.

Well Im no fan of DW either but criticizing it for an element that is at its core seems kind of silly. Its like saying Monopoly is stupid because it uses money. It makes much more sense to just say you don't like it.

Quote from: rgrove0172;919035It may not have an impact on the RULES of the game but the rules are only one part of the experience.

But as described, taking "one in the shoulder" has no impact on anything. The shoulder still works fine. There's no need to remove a bullet or arrow or bandage a wound. The location is irrelevant color that simply describes which location took a shallow scratch or an undetectable bruise. Getting hit in the shoulder has no different effect or impact than does getting hit in the leg, the chest, or the head. They are all tiny, meaningless scratches that have less impact than does a paper cut on a real life office worker.

Which means that for me, you as the GM describing some narrative prose about the "impact" of the wound will just confuse the situation since I will think that wound should matter when in fact it doesn't matter either in the rules or in your "heroes afterall" view as the GM. I find that sort of color worse than useless as it sets up contradictory views of what has happened in the game world.

This is, of course, very different if you have a system like Runequest where the hit does have a rules effect than of course it matters where you were hit. And even in systems that don't necessarily use hit location e.g. Pendragon or WEG D6 if there is some game effect some narrative description makes a bit more sense.

I'm not saying you are wrong to do that sort of narrative color, only that were I one of your players, I'd be more likely to find that your descriptions detract rather than enhance my experience as a player.

Quote from: Bren;919065But as described, taking "one in the shoulder" has no impact on anything. The shoulder still works fine. There's no need to remove a bullet or arrow or bandage a wound. The location is irrelevant color that simply describes which location took a shallow scratch or an undetectable bruise. Getting hit in the shoulder has no different effect or impact than does getting hit in the leg, the chest, or the head. They are all tiny, meaningless scratches that have less impact than does a paper cut on a real life office worker.

Which means that for me, you as the GM describing some narrative prose about the "impact" of the wound will just confuse the situation since I will think that wound should matter when in fact it doesn't matter either in the rules or in your "heroes afterall" view as the GM. I find that sort of color worse than useless as it sets up contradictory views of what has happened in the game world.

This is, of course, very different if you have a system like Runequest where the hit does have a rules effect than of course it matters where you were hit. And even in systems that don't necessarily use hit location e.g. Pendragon or WEG D6 if there is some game effect some narrative description makes a bit more sense.

I'm not saying you are wrong to do that sort of narrative color, only that were I one of your players, I'd be more likely to find that your descriptions detract rather than enhance my experience as a player.

Ok, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I cant imagine playing a Roleplaying game however where hit points and armor classes and x2 damage multipliers and such are my only windows to the world. The mechanics are a necessary evil in my opinion, like a nerdy pain in the ass brother in law who we ask to do our taxes because we need but don't want to be seen with in public.

Quote from: rgrove0172;919092Ok, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Well thank you very much. How gracious of you.

QuoteI cant imagine playing a Roleplaying game however where hit points and armor classes and x2 damage multipliers and such are my only windows to the world.

Yes I can understand that. Of course I never said that game mechanics should be the only window on the world. What I said, which you ignored, was that for me narrative color needs to be in harmony with game mechanics. If color is not in harmony, than that color makes play worse not better.

QuoteThe mechanics are a necessary evil in my opinion, like a nerdy pain in the ass brother in law who we ask to do our taxes because we need but don't want to be seen with in public.

To me the mechanics are not a necessary evil, the mechanics are what makes an RPG a game rather than something else. The mechanics, when well chosen, are part of what makes a setting consistence and coherent rather than simply a mish-mash of dramatic coincidence and contrivance or simple wish fulfillment.

The lack of mechanics is one of the reasons that a lot of popular fiction is highly inconsistent about how it presents levels of skill, competence, and difficulty. We've all seen the sort of fiction I mean where the abilities of heroes and villains are inconsistent except in the dramatic sense that the heroes are easily thwarted by the villain at the beginning and middle of a story arc (where the villains are competent and powerful and the heroes are not) while at the climax the heroes suddenly become more powerful than the villains (for no reason other than needing a happy ending). And we see the same, lame rinse and repeat structure week after week or sequel after sequel. And unlike a TV show or movie, when we play an RPG we don't have the swelling of a really good score or the appeal of the actors to overcome our disbelief in the silly turn of events nor the excuse of "its in the script" to justify the foolishness.

I really do get what your saying but this...

"If color is not in harmony, than that color makes play worse not better."

Would seem to imply that unless a specific detail has a direct correlation with the game then it has no value. Im assuming you aren't being literal here where everything the GM says have to have a rule equivalent or at least some actual bearing on the action.

"The day is a hot one, sweat beading on every forehead as you leave port." So we have to implement a modifier for the heat?
"The tavern is smoke filled and gloomy." We must modify perception checks then?
"The ranger smiles, pulling out his razor sharp dagger and runs its edge along his palm." so the dagger has to have a bonus because of its sharpness?

The GMs narration during a game is filled with these kinds of details that have no REAL effect other than to provide interesting color and a vivid picture. I don't see the different between them and..

"The blow knocks you back, staggered for a second. You shake your head to clear it."  doesn't mean you were stunned, it just makes 2 damage more interesting.
"The merchant frowns at you for a moment, obviously considering your proposal. He looks as if he is going to agree but then turns away." This is just one way of describing a failed diplomacy check or whatever. It doesn't have to change the basic game effect.

Im sorry, I just don't see how a little color can be a bad thing, certainly not compromising the game in anyway.