Well, there were some early design ideas for 5 e that were either not fully implemented or were abandoned.
(1) bounded accuracy, where pluses/minuses over a certain level just flattened into advantage/disadvantage;
(2) modularity, where features reflecting different versions of D&D could be added or subtracted.
There's kind of some stuff in the DM's guide for this, but not what they suggested originally.

I think the "embrace all styles of D&D" goal largely got subordinated to the other goals of "create a unified-feeling 'D&D brand'", "make the game accessible", "privilege Organized Play and portability" and "minimize production of rules and non-adventure products."

Quote from: Brand55;914278I honestly don't know as this is the first time in about 8 years anyone else in my group has run a campaign, so I've kept my nose out of anything other than the player's book and just enjoyed getting to play again. It could entirely be the GM, so understand what I'm talking about is just in reference to my group and not 5E as a whole since I'm not an expert on how the game is supposed to be handled. The first few levels went by pretty quickly, which seems to be pretty normal from what I've heard. But then we hit 4th level and started Curse of Strahd. That was over a month ago and the XP well dried up; we've had 5 or 6 sessions and we're not even halfway to 5th. So far it seems like we aren't really going to advance unless we go into murderhobo mode and wipe out every village we come across because the XP awards from the actual monsters have been pretty paltry and there doesn't seem to be any sort of roleplaying/story advancement rewards.

The level progression does slow down when level 4 is reached by design. The intent was to stretch out the "sweet spot" mid levels of play that were determined by survey to be the most popular.

After the speed leveling of 1-4 the journey to level 5 seems extremely long. Level 5 is a major level and moves characters into the next tier ( levels 5-10). The XP jump from level 4 to 5 is quite significant. It takes only 2700 XP to leapfrog through 3 levels to level 4. It takes an additional 3800 XP to make level 5. This has the effect of making it seem like you aren't earning much XP at all but you are unless the DM is cutting the amount of XP awarded. You are actually earning more raw XP at level 4 because the encounters are (supposed to be) worth more on average.

Its the huge gap between 4 and 5 that makes you feel like you aren't. Get ready for more of the same all the way to level 11. The system was designed for these levels to take longer. Notice the next huge leap between levels 10 and 11. 21,000 XP required. Once you are over that level 11 hump, its only another 15,000 to level 12.

I have noticed in my own campaigns that unless every session is encounter after encounter at a relentless pace, the middle levels do take a very long time to finish. Of course that is only when viewing XP progression through the WOTC versions lens. AD&D campaigns that are not Monty Haul giveaways take much longer in comparison. I wanted a faster rate of progression for my 5E game so after level 5 I started adding a set XP award per session in addition to regular awards. I did this because the system is new and I wanted to see how it plays through most of the levels in a reasonable amount of time.

Quote from: Necrozius;914257Y'all have a very specific and nitpicky idea of what a modular ruleset is. Does anyone have any examples of games that do this according to your definitions?

2e with its simple "Create a class" system and kits.
Gurps and a few other "assembly" systems.
The create your own class/race article for BX.

Anything where you can pull out one part of a class and replace something from another without breaking the class. Or a mechanic for adding onto a class stuff it normally doesnt have. 2e and the BX article cover this with EXP increases. Want a class/race that can literally do everything? Then you'll level up so slow glacial will look like greased lightning.

As opposed to just taking a Fighter and adding the wizards spellcasting ability and progression with no penalty or loss.

Quote from: Omega;9146472e with its simple "Create a class" system and kits.

The create your own class/race article for BX.

The 5e DMG has both of these.

I feel like with 5e I could effortlessly with no caveats snap in stuff from AD&D.  Like, I prefer the differing XP charts for each AD&D class.  I'd use those.  I'd use AD&D's saving throws.  etc.  I think adding those in would be completely without problem.

Quote from: Necrozius;914257Y'all have a very specific and nitpicky idea of what a modular ruleset is. Does anyone have any examples of games that do this according to your definitions?

Fantasycraft - Completely modular due to the fact that the vast majority of abilities, spells, feats are balanced against one another and scaled up. The game assumes that the sweet-spot of d20 starts around level 6 and peaks about 12th-level. So they balanced the game to extend the sweet-spot with the assumption that most games shouldn't necessarily aim for 20-levels and give you class-"cap-stone" abilities at level 16.

Races - Modular. There's rules for creating races based on point-values. You can use this to fine-tune variants of existing races, or you can use the canned races. Likewise they have Feats that will denote variant races as well. Playing a "Drow" or "Wood Elf" is a Feat. Or you can create something entirely new. Note: these rules are on their site, not in the book.

Backgrounds and Archetypes - All modular. You can build them from scratch from their tables on their site.

Health - uses a Vitality and Wound system. You could easily replace this with standard HP.

Armor - Uses a DR/Defense system. All classes get Defense Rating. Armor absorbs damage. This can be modified and/or done away with if you want a "classic AC" system.

Actually I could go on and on - but effectively I'd be doing "Lets Read Fantasycraft" and it would take up 500 pages of posts (and it's been done elsewhere). Yeah it's modular. Not GURPS modular, but as modular as you could possibly make d20.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;914711The 5e DMG has both of these.

5e doesnt have the modular system of the previous ones. Just some loose guidelines for swapping stuff in and out. And the UA article.

Quote from: Omega;9148155e doesnt have the modular system of the previous ones. Just some loose guidelines for swapping stuff in and out. And the UA article.

So it has to copy, what, GURPS?  Or the old AD&D 2e more or less verbatim for people to say, 'Yeap!  That's modular!'?

I'm with Necrozius, y'all are too damn picky.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;914831So it has to copy, what, GURPS?  Or the old AD&D 2e more or less verbatim for people to say, 'Yeap!  That's modular!'?

I'm with Necrozius, y'all are too damn picky.

No. Im just not taking "modular" to the nth degree to mean "everything on earth". If "adding stuff at random with no checks or balances or rules" is modular then every version of D&D is because you most assuredly can give the fighter all the wizards spells. Thats NOT modular.

Quote from: Omega;914837No. Im just not taking "modular" to the nth degree to mean "everything on earth". If "adding stuff at random with no checks or balances or rules" is modular then every version of D&D is because you most assuredly can give the fighter all the wizards spells. Thats NOT modular.

That's also an extreme position that I, at least, am not taking.  Again,. I'm still with Necro, we're nitpicking at this point, and it's not helping the conversation.

Fantasy Craft seems interesting. Although I didn't think that people in these here parts cared so much about balance between classes. RPGSite is more diverse than I had originally thought.

The talk about AD&D 2e's options, though: was that from the core rules, or from an article in some magazine once? 'Cause to me that doesn't really count (hey you guys get to be nitpicky, I want some of that too).

Quote from: Necrozius;914909The talk about AD&D 2e's options, though: was that from the core rules, or from an article in some magazine once? 'Cause to me that doesn't really count (hey you guys get to be nitpicky, I want some of that too).

Toward the end of its run, they came out with Skills and Powers for AD&D 2e. It gave 2e a point based character generation.

Quote from: Necrozius;914909Fantasy Craft seems interesting. Although I didn't think that people in these here parts cared so much about balance between classes. RPGSite is more diverse than I had originally thought.

The talk about AD&D 2e's options, though: was that from the core rules, or from an article in some magazine once? 'Cause to me that doesn't really count (hey you guys get to be nitpicky, I want some of that too).

There's a few of us here that really dig Fantasycraft. I'd say the most people here have never run it, or they might own it and never dug in. Most conversations about it indicate to me not having fully understood the toolbox nature of the system (or are turned off by how many levers and dials there are on it). What a lot of people don't realize is you need to "set it up" - by detailing what rules are in play and which aren't. They even recommend a "starting list" for new Fantasycraft GM's to start with - which flies over the head of every new GM I've seen use FC (including me).

The OTHER big thing that turns off some people here is that they have a "narrative dice" resource mechanic. But that too is no big deal. For some it is (but it can be ignored like most sub-systems in FC).

Quote from: estar;914912Toward the end of its run, they came out with Skills and Powers for AD&D 2e. It gave 2e a point based character generation.

I loved/hated Skills and Powers. It mutated D&D for me in glorious and profane ways. It's like The Darkhold of D&D for me... if I ran 2e, I fear I'd find myself crawling back to it like a crazed Elder-goo crackhead...

As I said, I think the "5e isn't modular" idea sticks because 5e isn't modular based on WotC own definitions.