Quote from: Bren;906330There certainly are some weird people in the world.

There definitely are. Or people desperately seeking some moral high ground to justify their own preferences.

Quote from: Coffee Zombie;906708I've seen this before too. I've also seen seduction rules used as a creep form of "time to rape your PC", which was not awesome. I've also seen the previous (and very witty turn of phrase) PCs behaving like social werewolves and refusing to admit there are silver tongues in the world.

I've seen seduction rules applied in a very clumsy, heavy handed manner that came across a creepy too, often with some very obvious meta game and OOC motivation. But the reaction that that is the only way they can be or will be used feels like a big over reaction. Any rules can be abused and mishandled after all. It almost like claiming that if a game has rules for physical grappling that they're to facilitate physical rape scenes or social mechanics over all as “mind control”.

But sex is always a sensitive subject that's difficult to be totally rational and objective about. Exalted 3rd's “Red Rule” is an example of the dichotomy in attitude. In short, Players (gm included with caveats) have OOC shut down power against sexual seductions, use of sexual charms and similar matters, no questions asked or explanation needed. This “plot armor” doesn't extend to other types of social actions. Players can veto their character being seduced into cheating on their spouse but not talked into murdering them, at least by RAW. Of course, nothing stops you from objecting but the gm isn't officially obligated to listen.

I've run into the “social werewolf” more often than I like. They've had a number of reasons but the end result was the same. At this point, I just tell new players flat out what I expect and how I run things and if its not compatible with them then its not compatible.

Quote from: Omega;906769They must really blow a gasket at the thought of 5e Warlocks out there... somewhere...

I'm not familiar with 5e (or really almost any) to get the reference?

You know, it's funny. No one owned up to the idea of believing in the social werewolf that "no one ever" had the silver solution to. Yet, here it is, being used again in association with a player who NEVER budges, but that's a straw man. No one's denied that these same players HAPPILY engage in social situations and are even persuaded by NPCs to part with valuables IF the player believes doing so will get him something HE values. That "something" IS the silver bullet.

Suppose the Exalted PCs primary ambition is to get a seat of political power, and a situation arises where an NPC is able to put him in that seat. The NPC just requires the PC cheat on his wife. No skill checks are needed here (though they might be employed to assure all parties that the terms of the proposition are legit). The player sure enough HAS the veto power. But if he values power more than fidelity, as my example stipulates, then he's not going to choose to use it. That's the power of the silver bullet. And it's all equally possible that this NPC in question is not really any kind of power broker but a lowly con operator with maxed out social skills so the player can't tell the difference.

Quote from: Nexus;906785I'm not familiar with 5e (or really almost any) to get the reference?

Warlocks in 5e can get various mind effecting powers.
Archfey path has Beguiling Presence & Dark Delerium(charm all within 10ft/1 in 60ft), and Beguiling Defense(reflect charms). Great old one path has Create Thrall(place a semi-permanent charm on one target), and two invocations are mind effecting. Mercifully none are at will powers. And all but Thrall allow a save.

A fully tricked out 5e Bard can be pretty formidible in conversation alone as they can gain a doubled proficiency bonus.

The bards probably the more potent of the two. By level 5. With a mere 16 CHA as long as they succeed the skill check they are pretty much guaranteed at least an ok result with NPC reactions even with hostile ones. Now put that sort of persuasive power in the hands of an NPC.