I'm a sucker for any game that covers a subject matter that isn't covered by a game I already own.  I have games that use Indian mythology here and there but none based on it entirely.  So, I googled reviews for the game and what I found was useless bullshit.  About the only think they actually told me about the game is that it is an OSR game.  I already knew it would be given the author.  The rest of the "reviews" were just the reviewers virtue signaling and talking about how much they hate the author.  That tells me a fair amount about them but nothing about the game.

I'm not an OSR guy.  That a game hearkens back to the RPGs of my youth is not a selling point for me.  It's more of a neutral point.  

How well does that game work in play?  How is the writing?  How well does it explain its setting for someone who is only very slightly familiar with Indian mythology?  I would like the impression of someone who knows the game and isn't bound and determined to hate it before even looking at it because they hate the author.

It's basically D&D with classes/levels and all the trappings, only shifted to epic/mythic India instead of medieval/fantasy Europe/Tolkien. It's got a pretty good overview of the setting and culture and is an easy read. It makes accommodations for the caste system and other Indian aspects and incorporates them into the rules and you can use it or ignore it as you see fit. I think it's a pretty good game if you like D&D but want to play in a setting that has not become quite so hackneyed as "medieval Europe with elves and hobbits."

I thought my review was pretty good.


But to answer your question, that's actually my big complaint - if you don't know anything about India (which I don't), you're pretty much screwed. While you get a general background, it's completely historical, it's not aimed at gaming.  And the only adventure tools you are given is a really minimalistic random dungeon generator which is completely worthless. And as there are no adventures or further support for the game, you're completely on your own.

IMHO, it really needs a second edition, with the author reading Spears the Dawn and seeing how to present an unfamiliar culture as a game meant to be played, not a vanity project

Quote from: Matt;905705It's basically D&D with classes/levels and all the trappings, only shifted to epic/mythic India instead of medieval/fantasy Europe/Tolkien. It's got a pretty good overview of the setting and culture and is an easy read. It makes accommodations for the caste system and other Indian aspects and incorporates them into the rules and you can use it or ignore it as you see fit. I think it's a pretty good game if you like D&D but want to play in a setting that has not become quite so hackneyed as "medieval Europe with elves and hobbits."

So if I wanted my D&D players to sail from D&D Europe to D&D India this might be the bunny?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;905745So if I wanted my D&D players to sail from D&D Europe to D&D India this might be the bunny?

I think so, myself. However, the game does presuppose that the GM does know something about the area and culture(s).

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;905745So if I wanted my D&D players to sail from D&D Europe to D&D India this might be the bunny?

Yeah, same rules set. I differ in that I think there's enough in the book that you don't need to research India. Besides, it's not India; it's the Bharata Kingdoms or whatever he called it.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;905745So if I wanted my D&D players to sail from D&D Europe to D&D India this might be the bunny?

I'd say so.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;905768I think so, myself. However, the game does presuppose that the GM does know something about the area and culture(s).

That is not true. Or at least, that's certainly not what I intended. ALL the information you need is in the book. I mean, unless you're talking about someone who literally doesn't know what an India is at all, like they never ever heard of the place or something.

I mean, is there something in the book that you can show me as an example, or something you can think of that you needed to know about India in order to run AoI that wasn't in the book?

Quote from: Matt;905883Yeah, same rules set. I differ in that I think there's enough in the book that you don't need to research India. Besides, it's not India; it's the Bharata Kingdoms or whatever he called it.

Bharata is a term from the Mahabharata.  It is a term for all the civilized kingdoms of India at that time. It's not a word I just 'called it'.  But of course, a player doesn't need to know that, they can imagine I just pulled it out of my ass and it won't change their ability to play.

Quote from: JeremyR;905725I thought my review was pretty good.


But to answer your question, that's actually my big complaint - if you don't know anything about India (which I don't), you're pretty much screwed. While you get a general background, it's completely historical, it's not aimed at gaming.  And the only adventure tools you are given is a really minimalistic random dungeon generator which is completely worthless. And as there are no adventures or further support for the game, you're completely on your own.

IMHO, it really needs a second edition, with the author reading Spears the Dawn and seeing how to present an unfamiliar culture as a game meant to be played, not a vanity project

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but again, can you give examples of things you needed to know in order to play a game in AoI, that isn't in the book? Can you actually get specific at all?

Also, the Patala Underworld is "minimalistic"? It goes on for pages and pages, divided by sections, and details a mythology-based megadungeon that is literally as large as the planet.

Quote from: yosemitemike;905700I'm a sucker for any game that covers a subject matter that isn't covered by a game I already own.  I have games that use Indian mythology here and there but none based on it entirely.  So, I googled reviews for the game and what I found was useless bullshit.  About the only think they actually told me about the game is that it is an OSR game.  I already knew it would be given the author.  The rest of the "reviews" were just the reviewers virtue signaling and talking about how much they hate the author.  That tells me a fair amount about them but nothing about the game.

I'm not an OSR guy.  That a game hearkens back to the RPGs of my youth is not a selling point for me.  It's more of a neutral point.  

How well does that game work in play?  How is the writing?  How well does it explain its setting for someone who is only very slightly familiar with Indian mythology?  I would like the impression of someone who knows the game and isn't bound and determined to hate it before even looking at it because they hate the author.

Just in case you haven't seen it yet, though I can totally understand your wanting to get impressions from people other than the author, here is my designer's notes Review of Arrows of Indra.

Quote from: RPGPundit;906706That is not true. Or at least, that's certainly not what I intended. ALL the information you need is in the book. I mean, unless you're talking about someone who literally doesn't know what an India is at all, like they never ever heard of the place or something.

I mean, is there something in the book that you can show me as an example, or something you can think of that you needed to know about India in order to run AoI that wasn't in the book?

I understand that, Pundit. What I'm referring to is what you just said: "like they never heard of the place or something." Your game is complete in and of itself, and is very playable. The issue that I see 'on the ground' is that the vast majority of American gamers are pretty much unaware of anything outside what they see and can touch in their little portion of the universe; to be fair, most Americans are equally as unaware or anything outside our borders either. Quite a few Americans are surprised to learn that the vast region to the north of us is actually a foreign country.

And while we do have more then a few people living here who are from that portion of the globe that your game describes, their culture is just as alien to the vast majority of Americans as yours is. Phil ran into the same issue, not just with Tekumel, but with South Asia in general.

I like your game, Pundit. I could run it in my sleep. The problems I've had with getting players is that it's too alien a setting for the people I talk to at the FLGS; they just can't get their heads around all the bizarre religions and goofy names. Tain't about your game - remember, I did buy a copy because I liked it - it's about the culture. Gronan could run it with no problems; the people he games with actually know what Asia is, and what that big lumpy bit sticking out of the bottom is. (The lamb vindaloo yesterday was exquisite, but I digress.)

The FLGS and most game conventions I've been to over the years are full of the illiterate and the ignorant. If it ain't the latest mass market thing, they have no idea what it might be. You, Pundit, and the people on this forum have multiple brain cells that rub together on a regular basis; the vast majority of people I see, out in the field, simply don't. The contrast between the people I was talking about gaming and games with yesterday and today was like the difference between day and night. And that profoundly saddens me...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;906716I understand that, Pundit. What I'm referring to is what you just said: "like they never heard of the place or something." Your game is complete in and of itself, and is very playable. The issue that I see 'on the ground' is that the vast majority of American gamers are pretty much unaware of anything outside what they see and can touch in their little portion of the universe; to be fair, most Americans are equally as unaware or anything outside our borders either. Quite a few Americans are surprised to learn that the vast region to the north of us is actually a foreign country.

And while we do have more then a few people living here who are from that portion of the globe that your game describes, their culture is just as alien to the vast majority of Americans as yours is. Phil ran into the same issue, not just with Tekumel, but with South Asia in general.

I like your game, Pundit. I could run it in my sleep. The problems I've had with getting players is that it's too alien a setting for the people I talk to at the FLGS; they just can't get their heads around all the bizarre religions and goofy names. Tain't about your game - remember, I did buy a copy because I liked it - it's about the culture. Gronan could run it with no problems; the people he games with actually know what Asia is, and what that big lumpy bit sticking out of the bottom is. (The lamb vindaloo yesterday was exquisite, but I digress.)

The FLGS and most game conventions I've been to over the years are full of the illiterate and the ignorant. If it ain't the latest mass market thing, they have no idea what it might be. You, Pundit, and the people on this forum have multiple brain cells that rub together on a regular basis; the vast majority of people I see, out in the field, simply don't. The contrast between the people I was talking about gaming and games with yesterday and today was like the difference between day and night. And that profoundly saddens me...

I have to agree with Chirine on this one. I also bought Arrows of Indra, and as a long time Tekumel player I think it's really good. I could easily run a campaign with these rules, whether it's set in mythical India or Tekumel. The problem, however, is that it is too exotic for most players. Give them the old Orc and Elves campaign world and they are in their glory. Give them Ssu, or Nagas and they're lost. Too bad really.

Shemek.

I don't know much about India and Indian mythology but I'm not that damn ignorant.  I know who Chandragupta was and have heard of and read a little of the Upanishads anyway.

I have never found Americans to be as comically ignorant as they are made out to be and I grew up in a farm town.  Maybe it's because I live in California.

Quote from: yosemitemike;906728I don't know much about India and Indian mythology but I'm not that damn ignorant.  I know who Chandragupta was and have heard of and read a little of the Upanishads anyway.

I have never found Americans to be as comically ignorant as they are made out to be and I grew up in a farm town.  Maybe it's because I live in California.

I agree with you - you do know about the subject, enough to recognize what you're looking at.

You may have smarter people out there on the West Coast - at least, more aware of other cultures. Here in 'fly-over' land; it's very different once you get away from the big urban areas (central Minneapolis and St. Paul). I'm basing my remarks on direct observations of my co-workers and the gamers I see at the various local game shops.