Quote from: Christopher BradyIf you're not going to support the publisher, why bother paying for it? It's throwing money at the wrong people.

Why bother paying for it? Because the book is in the possession of another person. In order to convince that person to part with the possession, they will likely demand something in trade, quite possibly in the form of currency.

What does the publisher get out of this? Knowing that you can always sell off books you aren't interested in allows people to be more frivolous in their buying decisions. The person selling their book secondhand might never have bought in the first place without the assurance that they could just flip it if it turned out not to interest them. Also, a gamer who just sold off his surplus books is quite likely to spend that money on more game books.

Quote from: Omega;906019Shame on Pazio for stealing sales from Pazio! :rolleyes:

Shame on a gamer for tryin' to run game on a gamer.

Thanks for the help everyone.  I'm new to this product, and after reading through the core rulebook... I kind of like it.  There's certainly some good stuff there, and it'll be easier for me to poach some D&D players over to this.  I know several D&D players that are not satisfied with 5e just yet- not by flaw of the product, but that it just hasn't 'blossomed' with additional content.  I also know a LOT of former 3.5 D&D players that might be interested in playing.

Now, I need even more help.  I've looked over the site, and it's not user-friendly.  So here's the issue-I like the paths, but do I need to get 5 books? Or do they have a compiled version?  What if I don't want the 'adventures', but I want the 'tools' from that adventure path (classes, races, gear, monsters, etc.)?

Quote from: Crüesader;906103Now, I need even more help.  I've looked over the site, and it's not user-friendly.  So here's the issue-I like the paths, but do I need to get 5 books? Or do they have a compiled version?  What if I don't want the 'adventures', but I want the 'tools' from that adventure path (classes, races, gear, monsters, etc.)?

Each Campaign (AP) consists of 6 episodes/stages, each covered by a separate book + a player's guide (usually FREE) describing basic information for the relevant AP (suggested gear, classes, some info about overall mood and such) + map folio. Each "stage-book" delivers next part of the campaign, but also discusses additional stuff that PCs might find in said campaign, like new enemies, organizations & societies, local history - things you could've probably read in other sourcebooks, but reduced to "LITE", "just enough" version.

For example: Kingmaker AP campaign contains enough information to launch functional, "build your own kingdom" scenarios and campaigns. These things are explained in length in Ultimate Campaign sourcebook, but if you don't need that level of detail, you get it for free with Kingmaker.

So. If I were you, I'd first download Player's Guide for the AP of your choice. This should prove to be enough to form an opinion whether the campaign is meant for you and your crew. Then, providing I'd lik the premise, I'd invest in 1st book and 1st book only. I've heard plenty of people saying that they lost interest in a few APs after the first episode.

Only then I'd consider buying additional books.

Oh, one more thing: Episodes aren't meant to be played separately, but it's not that it's impossible to use any stage as an independent story, especially not for a creative mind determined to get the shit done. For example: I've heard about a few groups starting Kingmaker AP at a later stage, and everyone involved were apparently happy with the outcome.

I hope this helps.

Quote from: Crüesader;906103Thanks for the help everyone.  I'm new to this product, and after reading through the core rulebook... I kind of like it.  There's certainly some good stuff there, and it'll be easier for me to poach some D&D players over to this.

True Story from the FLGS last night. I'm running Feng Shui and another player who I know from MTG circles jumps in. We'll call him Brian, because that's his name. The store owner (who is playing with us) mentions offhandedly how she has been asking around for people for Brian's campaign. I know nothing about this but quickly suss out this is a 5e game. Most of the rest of us at the table do our best to look occupied with other things, then David, one of the players who had apparently already been approached by Brian, launches into "I don't know how excited I am to play 5e," and they start a short discussion about how unsatisfied he is with the way 5e represents skills.

Cut to the end of the night. After the game is done, cyber-apes defeated, and we are headed out the door, I ask David is he was going to be make it to the next Pathfinder game (because we are running it the 16th, which I know clashes with the next MTG prerelease.) Mark, the guy who had been working the counter at the FLGS perks up with "you're running Pathfinder? When?"

So yeah. It's got some draw. :cool:

Quote from: Crüesader;906103Now, I need even more help.  I've looked over the site, and it's not user-friendly.  So here's the issue-I like the paths, but do I need to get 5 books? Or do they have a compiled version?  What if I don't want the 'adventures', but I want the 'tools' from that adventure path (classes, races, gear, monsters, etc.)?

Each AP is 6 books if you want to run them start-to-finish. Rise of the Runelords has a compilation:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8tc0?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-Rise-of-the-Runelords-Anniversary-Edition

If you want the hardcover, it can be had for cheaper at amazon.

They are also planning on putting out a conversion/compilation of Curse of the Crimson throne.

Can't say too much about other material from the adventures. Some monsters/items get reprinted in bestiaries and books like Ultimate Equipment, but some never do. Most of it does eventually make its way into d20pfsrd.org, so if you are just looking for that one stat block that is perfect for your game, there's that.

Just to mention. Thier APs are written from the viewpoint that players are new to Pathfinder and making characters. Which is a good thing if your group is new top the hobby. Bad if they are inexperienced as many (too many imo) of their npcs are poorly designed imo. Even a slightly optimized group of four players will defeat them easily. I found myself having to rewrite major npcs as they were and still are poorly designed. For example in one of the APs your fighting against a caster in a enclosed area. Yet no crowd control spells. Or poor feat choices imo. Which kind of defeated the purpose for myself at least off buying a AP. Which is to save time. In my case the opposite. As well their Aps with map pack in canadain dollars comes out to 120-140$ with tax. So ask players to invest it in as well to buy them.

As well you may want to hold off buying more books to run the game as in August cheaper smaller pocket editions are going to be released. As well as their Curse of the Crimson Throne Adventure Path will be rereleased in Anniversary edition updated to Pathfinder rules in September 2016. A link to their release schedule: http://paizo.com/releasedate

Quote from: sureshot;906191Which kind of defeated the purpose for myself at least off buying a AP. Which is to save time. In my case the opposite.

While I agree with your opinion concerning some NPCs, I don't think it's harder to come up with their superior replacements, rather than produce whole campaign with coherent storyline, subquests, societies, maps, treasures, minis and whatnot...

Btw, you might find these links useful:

http://www.myth-weavers.com/generate_npc.php

http://www.thegm.org/npcs.php

http://tuskmountain.wikidot.com/monster-stat-generator

Just to add, some of the Adventure Paths (AKA APs) are known to be somewhat railroady as well, so other than the first book for extra content that the OP is asking for, he may want to look up the details of whatever one he's looking into.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;906201Just to add, some of the Adventure Paths (AKA APs) are known to be somewhat railroady as well, so other than the first book for extra content that the OP is asking for, he may want to look up the details of whatever one he's looking into.

I would 2nd this.  The APs are pretty darn railroady.  However, railroads can work pretty well with the right group (one of my groups really likes them) and the APs that I have run or read are pretty well-done railroads using epic scope and plot to move the story forward in specific directions that feel more natural than artificial.  Railroads have a bad rap, but some players like feeling that their characters are part of something bigger, while others feel like their free will is crushed by the driving plot.  It is a style of play that is not inherently good or bad.  It just suits some groups better than others, and it it's worth being aware of before you dive in.

I love Pathfinder.

I played every incarnation of D&D from that little box with the two red books in it, right up to 3.5, which I thought was the absolute best version of all. I hated 4e, and hate 5e even more. So Pathfinder lets me stay playing 3.5 - in an even slightly improved version - and have a game that is still current and has a good supply of books that I don't have yet.

I never use any published setting or adventures though. I prefer to make up my own.

Quote from: Crüesader;905145I mean 'picked up' physically, not 'purchased'.  Something I couldn't help but notice skimming through this...

Now, I've never played 'Pathfinder' because it's one of those games that comes up all the time by some over-enthusiastic weirdo, and he's like "Oh yeah?  Well PATHFINDER is waaaaay better you guys, you've never played it?  I can't believe it.  You need to play it."

Call me a contrarian, but when something's pitched like that to me I kind of get a little irked by it.  BUT- I couldn't help but notice...

Just skimming through this thing, it looked like... D&D third edition.  With 'multiculturalism' or something, which is fine, but.... this is D&D 3e... right?  Or what am I missing?

Do I need to go back to the store and get this thing, and pay actual money for it... or did I discover something that's 'old news' to everyone else?

I am sure others have said this but yes it is basically 3.75

I don't play pathfinder (I'd rather just play 3E) but it was quite smart of Paizo to do this when they did. It doesn't seem like it now but it was a brilliant move on their part to essentially keep 3E in print and support it when 4E came out. They were the publishers of dragon and dungeon at the time but my understanding is WotC basically cut them out...so they kind of got the ultimate revenge. Personally I am not a big fan of the way they do modules, which is their big draw...but I really have to admire how huge they got in the wake of 4E.

Quote from: Madprofessor;906220Railroads have a bad rap, but some players like feeling that their characters are part of something bigger, while others feel like their free will is crushed by the driving plot.  It is a style of play that is not inherently good or bad.  It just suits some groups better than others, and it it's worth being aware of before you dive in.

This is very elegant way to put it and I like it very much.

Screenshoting for further reference.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;905347You like Wayne Reynolds art?  OK, to each their own.  He does have a great sense of colour, but proportions?  Not so much.

I think he is a good artist. I really don't understand the criticisms he gets from folks. The pathfinder aesthetic isn't to my taste but I still can see the attraction to it.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;906298I think he is a good artist. I really don't understand the criticisms he gets from folks. The pathfinder aesthetic isn't to my taste but I still can see the attraction to it.

He's developed a sort of pseudo-manga style for Pathfinder that is I think is at the heart of it. I think it gives Paizo products their own distinctive look.