Quote from: J.L. Duncan;903960Hmmm...

So calling someone an idiot is ok. Patronizing them after they've called you an idiot is unacceptable.
I understand.

Anything else?

I never said it was unacceptable. That's the word you've been using, in your attempt to play word police. I said it was worse.

But only a post or two back, you were pretending to take the high road, after being hurt by a mean word. And now you just admitted you were actually being patronizing and passive-aggressive.

Since you've completely ceded the argument and admitted you took an even lower road, there's really not anything more to say.

Quote from: S'mon;903962I thought by therpgsite standards this was pretty good behaviour!

Incidentally, I did appreciate your response a few pages back. You took it with good humor, and based the other posts I've seen, you seem to hold thoughtful and considered opinions.

The culture of bluntness at the RPGSite is something I (occasionally) appreciate as well. If someone does or says something stupid, they're an idiot. It happens to all of us, and it's not a permanent thing. But while pretending that it's only the words, or only the argument, or only the idea that's idiotic -- and that somehow none of that applies to the person saying the words, or making the argument, or holding the idea -- can create a veneer of civility, it's just a veneer. The disagreements remain, so it becomes a tradeoff between some degree of in-your-faceness, and the "I'm not touching you!" dance.

Quote from: Pat;903968Incidentally, I did appreciate your response a few pages back. You took it with good humor, and based the other posts I've seen, you seem to hold thoughtful and considered opinions.

Thanks - yeah, I do hold thoughtful and considered opinions. I've had to do a lot of considering over the years, since the aftermath of 9/11 and especially the fallout of the 2003 Iraq invasion, showed me that much of what I had believed about the world, about people, was wrong.  I don't think most people ever go through that sort of reevaluation process.

Nevermind.

Nevermind.

Quote from: Bren;903685OK. You are ignorant.

And now, I was ignorant.  Thanks for your help here...

Quote from: Bren;903685Yes.

"The Federal Trade Commission has taken its first-ever action over a crowdfunding project, finding that its creator used "deceptive tactics" by raising more than $122,000 to create a board game—and then spending the money on things like rent, moving to Oregon, and personal equipment."

Uh... okay, let's just say I might be aware of a video game kickstarter that's pulled in over half a million.  And the problem is, it's been three years and there's barely anything to show for it (minus a few map renders and some 3d characters, but nothing resembling 'playable game').  After the fact, the developers claimed that the Kickstarter was for 'tools' and one particular developer entered into talks with another company to try and buy the IP.

I'm thinking it'd be a stretch, but one could say that the entire Kickstarter was misleading toward what the product was supposed to be.  I know one of the developers with no job purchased a home in a decent part of Seattle (apparently there is a decent part of that city, could've fooled me).  

It was this event in particular that keeps me from Kickstarters unless they've got something up front to show for it.

Hey, though- in all honesty thanks for the information.

Quote from: Crüesader;903981It was this event in particular that keeps me from Kickstarters unless they've got something up front to show for it.

Which is part of my issue with Kickstarter in general, most don't, because they need the money to actually prototype something first.  And even then, that prototype may not even be representative of the final product.

Quote from: Crüesader;903981And now, I was ignorant.  Thanks for your help here...



"The Federal Trade Commission has taken its first-ever action over a crowdfunding project, finding that its creator used "deceptive tactics" by raising more than $122,000 to create a board game—and then spending the money on things like rent, moving to Oregon, and personal equipment."

Uh... okay, let's just say I might be aware of a video game kickstarter that's pulled in over half a million.  And the problem is, it's been three years and there's barely anything to show for it (minus a few map renders and some 3d characters, but nothing resembling 'playable game').  After the fact, the developers claimed that the Kickstarter was for 'tools' and one particular developer entered into talks with another company to try and buy the IP.

I'm thinking it'd be a stretch, but one could say that the entire Kickstarter was misleading toward what the product was supposed to be.  I know one of the developers with no job purchased a home in a decent part of Seattle (apparently there is a decent part of that city, could've fooled me).  

It was this event in particular that keeps me from Kickstarters unless they've got something up front to show for it.

Hey, though- in all honesty thanks for the information.

The equipment he bought was... movie making equipment. He then made at least one indie movie while telling the backers that the money was gone, etc. Then when we brought all this to light. and I was one of those people who dug up the data. He scrambled to cover up and/or delete as much evidence as he could.

He left the designer and sculptor with nothing and if Cryptozoic hadnt stepped in then the game would still be DOA.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;904088Which is part of my issue with Kickstarter in general, most don't, because they need the money to actually prototype something first.  And even then, that prototype may not even be representative of the final product.

Project Elite
This is the sculp shown.


This is what will get.


Or Guardian Chronicles where they presented sculpts like this


And then changed to digital sculpts that ended like this.


And Serpents Tongue where after the KS succeeded the designers decided to re-design the game. (Not by a huge amount Im told. But folk were annoyed.)

And others. The list grows monthly.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;904088Which is part of my issue with Kickstarter in general, most don't, because they need the money to actually prototype something first.  And even then, that prototype may not even be representative of the final product.

Project Elite
This is the sculp shown.


This is what will get.


Or Guardian Chronicles where they presented sculpts like this


And then changed to digital sculpts that ended like this.


And Serpents Tongue where after the KS succeeded the designers decided to re-design the game. (Not by a huge amount Im told. But folk were annoyed.)

And others. The list grows monthly.

Quote from: Omega;904477And Serpents Tongue where after the KS succeeded the designers decided to re-design the game. (Not by a huge amount Im told. But folk were annoyed.)

Not familiar with that Kickstarter project, but what I can say is that if someone designs a game, launches their KS, then decides to redesign, that is a huge miss-step. Redesigns are fine, but they should all occur before the KS even launches. Do you know what caused the designer(s) to take a step back on the game's design AFTER the KS succeeded?

Quote from: Nihilistic Mind;904483Not familiar with that Kickstarter project, but what I can say is that if someone designs a game, launches their KS, then decides to redesign, that is a huge miss-step. Redesigns are fine, but they should all occur before the KS even launches. Do you know what caused the designer(s) to take a step back on the game's design AFTER the KS succeeded?

No clue. But some backers felt like it was a bait-n-switch. Wasnt helped by the designers having a bit of an attitude problem initially. If I recall correctly it was simply that the designers had new ideas and implemented those instead of what had been presented on the KS. The game shipped and alot of players like it. But it didnt live up to the hype that had built up to the KS. I dont feel like digging through old threads to find out. I walked after they started announcing it was going to be a CCG.

I backed the Diehard minis Kickstarter and just about two months later received my miniatures. They are absolutely gorgeous. I'll be going all in for their next kickstarter slated for this fall.

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Quote from: Omega;904473The equipment he bought was... movie making equipment. He then made at least one indie movie while telling the backers that the money was gone, etc. Then when we brought all this to light. and I was one of those people who dug up the data. He scrambled to cover up and/or delete as much evidence as he could.

He left the designer and sculptor with nothing and if Cryptozoic hadnt stepped in then the game would still be DOA.

Yeah, a lot of what was bought in this Kickstarter I've mentioned was 'software and hardware'.  Of course, my main concern is that it's been several years and there's been nothing to show for it.  A rumor that I can't confirm is that several people who were attached to the project have been cut off from it.  That could be true, but there's a shitload of reasons for that.  After all, the game that this is supposed to be a 'Spiritual Successor' for was home of one of the worst types of gamers I've ever seen- and some of the people heading up that project strike me as loons.

Maybe one of those guys lucked out or something.  I dunno.  I just know when I didn't have a job at one point- there was no 'moving into a new house' without some income to pay to the bank.

Quote from: Matt;903747I know I feel like a thief every time I don't play Buckaroo Banzai that I preordered...oh wait, got that backwards, it feels like he's a thief...something like that.  At least I can play all these copies of Far West...

Skarka needs to be dragged into to court and shook upside down till the lint falls from his pockets.

Especially since he's so proud of the new product he put out with Adamant.