I recently finished reading this article on level design in Super Mario World, and I've been thinking about how I can apply lessons learned here to building dungeons in D&D.
http://thegamedesignforum.com/features/RD_SMW_1.html

A couple of concepts I got out of this:
'Composite' games, combining two genres and using the tools of one genre to tackle challenges in the other (ex. using platforming mechanics for combat I.E. jumping on monster's heads.)
Structuring levels around a 'cadence' of challenges evolving and mutating from a standard challenge.

As I think about how to apply this to D&D, my favorite trap calls to mind:
A simple rope bridge over a lake with bells and chimes hanging from the bridge across its length. Walking across the bridge makes noises, which attracts enemies.
The problem here is stealth; the party is trying to navigate the dungeon without calling attention from powerful enemies. If the party does call attention to themselves by ringing the bells, they will find themselves fighting on a precariously swaying choke point. The party will need to find some other way around.
If we break this challenge down to its component parts however, we find that this is really two challenges combined: the precarious rope bridge, and the alarm bells. This would be a challenge better suited to later parts of a dungeon than earlier parts, but I'm not sure if it would be more appropriate as an evolution of a standard challenge, and evolution of an evolution, or an evolution/expansion combining elements of two challenges.

Your thoughts?

I like a thematic dungeon or level, where the elements build up to be more difficult. So, it might start off with a rickety bridge over a shallow trench (so not likely to be fatal) and build up to ambushes from above, below or both, with extra traps, over more dangerous environments. And all the better if the players can figure out how to use the bridges to their advantage.

Similarly, I generally introduce unusual monsters in small numbers and a weak version so that the players have a chance to learn about it without getting killed, but so that there are later more powerful versions in greater numbers so that the effort of figuring out the monster is rewarded.

This would only work if you made your dungeon highly linear. I suspect for most D&D games though, the openness of the players' options makes it impossible. You can't control things nearly so much.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;882402This would only work if you made your dungeon highly linear. I suspect for most D&D games though, the openness of the players' options makes it impossible. You can't control things nearly so much.

Well, there's the horizontal dimension of dungeon building (the individual dungeon level) and the vertical dimension of dungeon building (upper levels down to lower levels, with difficulty increasing as you delve deeper.)
You don't want the dungeon to be too linear along its horizontal dimension, but the vertical dimension is generally linear by necessity.

*edit*

Of course, now I want to be cute and build a dungeon that flips the horizontal and vertical dimensions.
The dungeon consists of a long, great hall that starts off easy at one end and gets progressively more difficulty as you get deeper in.
But the hall also has many upper galleries for the PC's to explore. Rooms are generally of even difficulty with the rooms above and below them, and are connected to those rooms by way of stairs, chutes, and pits.
The horizontal dimension is linear, but the vertical dimension has branches and loops all over the place.

Quote from: Cave Bear;882442Well, there's the horizontal dimension of dungeon building (the individual dungeon level) and the vertical dimension of dungeon building (upper levels down to lower levels, with difficulty increasing as you delve deeper.)
You don't want the dungeon to be too linear along its horizontal dimension, but the vertical dimension is generally linear by necessity.

*edit*

Of course, now I want to be cute and build a dungeon that flips the horizontal and vertical dimensions.
The dungeon consists of a long, great hall that starts off easy at one end and gets progressively more difficulty as you get deeper in.
But the hall also has many upper galleries for the PC's to explore. Rooms are generally of even difficulty with the rooms above and below them, and are connected to those rooms by way of stairs, chutes, and pits.
The horizontal dimension is linear, but the vertical dimension has branches and loops all over the place.

That sounds like a Super Metroid type of map that would be fun. But it's hard to visualize in your mind or with a 2d map.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;882402This would only work if you made your dungeon highly linear. I suspect for most D&D games though, the openness of the players' options makes it impossible. You can't control things nearly so much.

It doesn't have to be highly linear, nor an absolute progression. Unless your dungeon is designed so that players randomly teleport to any room, there will be some that are nearer the entrance and likely to be encountered first, and areas that are locally linear. Like dungeon levels of graduated difficulty; that doesn't mean the players can't wander into the seventh level without visiting all of the preceding levels.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;882453That sounds like a Super Metroid type of map that would be fun. But it's hard to visualize in your mind or with a 2d map.

• Swap the dimensions to show height and length like this map.
  Spoiler

  
• Orient the main axis lengthwise and create one long sequence of rooms and corridors.
• Don't use any long vertical shafts.
• Put in a series of short vertical shafts going up or down from the main shaft.

This gives me an idea.

I should literally just take Super Metroid's map and convert it to a D&D dungeon.

People like Dyson Logos have actually done a whole series of side-view/vertical geomorphs that work perfectly for this sort of dungeon; as I recall, Jeff Rients's Wessex game used a dungeon that was almost exclusively of this type.  A quick GI search should bring up all sorts of great material to use.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;882711This gives me an idea.

I should literally just take Super Metroid's map and convert it to a D&D dungeon.

At the risk of being banished from the boards (based on the responses on the previous thread on this) maybe you should check out Angry DM's megadungeon series.  He's getting into the meatier parts where he is doing exactly what you are talking about.

Link

Quote from: KingCheops;882821At the risk of being banished from the boards (based on the responses on the previous thread on this) maybe you should check out Angry DM's megadungeon series.  He's getting into the meatier parts where he is doing exactly what you are talking about.

Link

While I don't particularly like Angry DMs style in general, I do agree with him that Super Metroid is a great way to think about dungeons and how they're put together. It's not 1:1, but it can give a frame of reference that is often lacking in discussions of dungeon building.

We actually have a thread about his megadungeon series on here already.

Though I have to say I've grown tired of the rambling nature of his articles. Way too much noise.

I recommend the Alexandrian's series on Dungeon Design (he examines a lot of the issues brought up here).

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/13085/roleplaying-games/jaquaying-the-dungeon

The whole series:
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/tag/jaquaying-the-dungeon

The rest of the Design articles:
http://thealexandrian.net/gamemastery-101

What about Pac-Man?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;882711This gives me an idea.

I should literally just take Super Metroid's map and convert it to a D&D dungeon.

I've used Doom maps in the past.
Just make sure your players aren't already too familiar with the maps you are going to use.

Quote from: Morandir;882763People like Dyson Logos have actually done a whole series of side-view/vertical geomorphs that work perfectly for this sort of dungeon; as I recall, Jeff Rients's Wessex game used a dungeon that was almost exclusively of this type.  A quick GI search should bring up all sorts of great material to use.

Neat! I like to make my own maps, but I'm always interested in looking at examples for inspiration.

Quote from: Telarus;883118I recommend the Alexandrian's series on Dungeon Design (he examines a lot of the issues brought up here).

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/13085/roleplaying-games/jaquaying-the-dungeon

The whole series:
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/tag/jaquaying-the-dungeon

The rest of the Design articles:
http://thealexandrian.net/gamemastery-101

Will take a look, thanks!

Quote from: RPGPundit;883509What about Pac-Man?

It could be really fun to try and model the ghost behaviors using D&D monsters.