Quote from: Snowman0147;8818831GP isn't going to get shit much less feed a family for a year.  John Wick is just full of shit.

While I bow down to few with reference to my pedantry over medieval economics, I find it hilarious how many people are debating the accuracy of Wick's economics instead of the idiocy inherent in his assertion.

"So hang on there, sport" -- one could imagine one of Wick's fellow players asking -- "you think we could go home and live like kings on 70,000 GP?  Would that be the one-shot PCs we just rolled up who didn't exist ten minutes ago and won't exist four hours from now?  Great, so our imaginary guys we haven't even named yet will live good imaginary lives we'll never experience or notice.  Okay, so they do that." (sound of character sheet crumpled up and tossed in wastebasket) "Who's up for a game of Munchkin?"

Honestly, the most pathetic thing about that blog post was Wick retelling that anecdote in the first place.

Quote from: Bren;881882In what version of D&D does 1 GP feed a family of four for a year? Is that really what 1 GP is worth in 5E or did John Wick invent that?

1 GP is roughly 10-15 days meagre subsistence for 1 person in pretty well every edition I think; 20-30 days subsistence in 1e with its 20 sp to the gp.

Well I honestly think that Tomb of Horrors appeals to certain gamers the way that Dark Souls does: if you love it I means you gain some gritty old school cred "games used to be hard and unforgiving!".

Now I admit that there IS a grim appeal of being able to gloat that you managed to survive the ToH because you defied the odds. Also because a movie version of "Ready Player One" is coming out in a few years and you want to get on the pop culture bandwagon early. Mark my words: there will be green devil face t-shirts and purses at Hot Topic. And that actually makes me happy.

Quote from: Orphan81;881886However when a DM gives out gold for "Buying magical equipment" I don't see it as your character actually going to ye olden magical shoppe and picking up a +1 sword... I'm pretty damn sure it's suppose to just be the closest equivalent of a point buy system for your character.. to represent items they've discovered on their journeys up to X level (X being any level above 1st).

Theres one or two old TSR modules that do that. They allocate players a spending allotment for initial magical equipment to represent that these higher level characters had likely accumulated some gear along the way. Easy in AD&D as the items had their sale to shop values listed. So equipping a Vorpal Sword would take 50k of your 70k, a Staff of the Maji has a sale to shop value of 75k. So if you only had 70k spending cash it was outside your means.

Quote from: Ravenswing;881918Honestly, the most pathetic thing about that blog post was Wick retelling that anecdote in the first place.

Absolutely. Reading his comments - the 52 car pileup of one pathetic statement after another - instills in me the diametric opposite of ever wanting to purchase anything this jackass has had a hand in.

Quote from: Necrozius;881930Mark my words: there will be green devil face t-shirts and purses at Hot Topic. And that actually makes me happy.

Really. Who the hell jumps inside anything drawn by Errol Otus?

Spoiler

Quote from: AsenRG;881800Funny you mention that, but if "Deathtrap Dungeon" is the gamebook I'm thinking of? I passed it on the first go, though I was probably lucky, too. Was it some stupid baron organising a "survive my dungeon" competition;)?
(I'm not sure, because I've read in Bulgarian translation, and the title might or might not translate back to English as "Deathtrap Dungeon". Don't have it on me to check).

Yeah, it is.

As described it's the worst spectator sport ever, because the crowds get to see the adventurers enter the dungeon and leave, but don't get to see any of the actual action. It would have been greatly improved if the crowd watching and yelling insults/advice of dubious reliability at you had been a feature.

Quote from: Warthur;881937Yeah, it is.

As described it's the worst spectator sport ever, because the crowds get to see the adventurers enter the dungeon and leave, but don't get to see any of the actual action. It would have been greatly improved if the crowd watching and yelling insults/advice of dubious reliability at you had been a feature.

The minotaurs have that in Taladas for Dragonlance. Big maze spectators look down in on to watch contestants/victems navigate and die to various traps.

Quote from: Omega;881936Really. Who the hell jumps inside anything drawn by Errol Otus?

Spoiler

One could just as easily ask "who the hell walks through an archway filled with a mystery gas/energy field drawn by Otus?", which if I remember right is the correct choice there.

The face radiates evil, but given that you're inside the lich's tomb you could very well conclude that the correct choice is to confront the evil rather than evade it. Both exits look absolutely awful and if you have missed the inscription about shunning green (or chose not to believe it because hey, why would the Lich tell the truth?) there isn't really any basis to work out which you should go through unless you're into sending farm animals/hirelings through such things in your stead, which is a playstyle that wasn't universally followed even in old school days.

I can totally see why an intelligent, observant group would still end up going into the green devil face. It isn't really a test of intelligent problem-solving so much as it's a guess-what-I'm-thinking thing.

Quote from: Warthur;881940I can totally see why an intelligent, observant group would still end up going into the green devil face. It isn't really a test of intelligent problem-solving so much as it's a guess-what-I'm-thinking thing.

Stick a pole in it to see if there are any traps, then pull what's left of the pole out and realize what's going on.

Seems like standard operating procedure to me.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;881945Stick a pole in it to see if there are any traps, then pull what's left of the pole out and realize what's going on.

Seems like standard operating procedure to me.

That's what I was about to ask. Testing out a (kind of sinister) passage like that before crawling into it seems pretty straight forwards particularly as you know the place is full of traps. I was thinking that maybe Sphere's Annihilation only activate once the whole object is inside them or something like that.


Though I'd expect some teeth of some sort to bisect someone crawling through or even for the face to animal, chew and swallow (or spit out. Ew.) the victim.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;881945Stick a pole in it to see if there are any traps, then pull what's left of the pole out and realize what's going on.

Seems like standard operating procedure to me.

A good point, though once such a thing becomes standard operating procedure I suspect you'd start seeing traps designed to fuck you over if you poke it with a pole. After all, Hawk & Moor talked about how the various wall/ceiling/floor monsters were developed in response to a player developing an SOP of looking at all the walls, floor and ceiling when entering a room.

Quote from: Warthur;881949After all, Hawk & Moor talked about how the various wall/ceiling/floor monsters were developed in response to a player developing an SOP of looking at all the walls, floor and ceiling when entering a room.

GMs and game designers (including VG designers) do this sometimes, and I think it's a mistake. (See Left4Dead 2.)

IMHO, making the judicious approach be the WORST one discourages problem-solving skills, which was supposed to be point of non "hack/slay" playstyles, right?

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;881956GMs and game designers (including VG designers) do this sometimes, and I think it's a mistake. (See Left4Dead 2.)

IMHO, making the judicious approach be the WORST one discourages problem-solving skills, which was supposed to be point of non "hack/slay" playstyles, right?

It can be useful to discourage over-use. But personally Id rather just say "Uh, guys, theres no need to tap every damn cobblestone in every damn corner." and point out that the PCs do that stuff anyhow. Why they move so slow. I sometimes use a standard "looks clear." as the indicator that yes, it is clear, and "you feel something different here." and variations thereof for when there might be something of note.

I like 5e's passive+active perception system.

Quote from: Orphan81;881878John Wick, like pretty much every other successful game designer outside of Shane Lacy Hensely, has VERY strong opinions on gaming..

Other completely obvious news at 11.

I've known a number of professional game designers over the years, and most of them pointedly avoid being loud, opinionated jackasses. The gaming world is their workplace. It's also a very small place. Anyone that makes a living a game design will likely rely on freelancing at some point as well. Every enemy you make is one person who may think twice about hiring you.

Then there is the PR angle. Designers that like to get into Internet brawls end up with people that won't buy their games simply because they don't like them.

I can see why it looks like most designers have strong opinions. It's because those designers are the ones with a big presence on forums. Other designers are pretty cautious on general forums like this or over at rpg.net. They drop in to promote their games and answer questions, and that is about it. Or, if they do have a solid presence, like Brendan, they are one of the most polite people on the site.

I think another element is that game designers actually design games. Rather than spend hours bitching about a game they hate like I do, they simply spend that time making games that do what they want.

Quote from: Ravenswing;881918Honestly, the most pathetic thing about that blog post was Wick retelling that anecdote in the first place.

It's telling that both the Best and Worst Adventure blog posts end with an anecdote about Wick acting as a player trying to undermine the GM and teach them a lesson. Many of the worst sessions of my teenage years came from the times I decided I was going to teach the group a lesson. Wick seems to have never grown out of that.

The part where he tries to convince the group to take their gold and live happily also underlines a point. He doesn't make an in-character decision to do that himself. When the rest of group, that came to play D&D, rightly rejects his idea, Wick doesn't have his character do it. It was just an out-of-character angle to ruin the session. If there was any other angle to it, he would have had his character actually do that as opposed to just suggest it.

Of course, as others have mentioned, the 70,000 gold just represents the equipment they have picked up over the years, not a big bag of gold that actually exists.