Quote from: The Butcher;878683I had no idea it was going to be that good! I was just annoyed. Now I'm mad.

The guys who wrote the RQ6 toolkit system, took the setting they loved the most and wrote the most complete and comprehensive collection of spells, cults, monsters for a setting probably ever.  It would have been the "Master's Class on adapting RQ6 to your favorite system."

And it will never see the light of day because Chaosium is ...threatened by it...cowardly...just dicks? Who knows.

Quote from: The Butcher;878683#1 and #2 are dumb, but hey, it's their funeral. But #3 is sheer douchebaggery.

Hey, remember when we were laughing at CoC7 "pushing rolls" bullshit and Akrasia swung by to defend it?

It must have been a false flag op, he has a personal vendetta against Chaosium doncha know.

Stafford needs to come out of the sweat lodge and look at his feet.  Too much toejam has collected In the shadow of greatness.

Quote from: CRKrueger;878689It must have been a false flag op, he has a personal vendetta against Chaosium doncha know.

Yes, it was all part of my very cunning 'whispering campaign'. :pundit:

Everything i liked about Runequest was stuff loz and pete wrote for it so yeah count me out for this new boreantha tethered version.

In other news i cant wait to see what the folks who made me give a shit about Runequest do next!

My gut feeling is that the new RuneQuest will be a good system.

It will probably be different from RQ5/6, but RQ5/6 were very different from earlier versions of RQ.

Pulling back to a more traditional RQ with the improvements made for RQ5/6 might be a good thing.

We can use the RQ5/6 improvements and the new RuneQuest ideas, with things from other versions.

Quote from: Akrasia;878660Also, Estar, you should come out with a RQ6 version of Majestic Wilderlands.  It would fit very well with the forthcoming Classic Fantasy RQ6 supplement.

I have been considering it for awhile as Legends is open content. Which why I been participating in the kickstarters and trying out the rules in order to get a feel for how the system works.

Quote from: estar;878736I have been considering it for awhile as Legends is open content. Which why I been participating in the kickstarters and trying out the rules in order to get a feel for how the system works.

RQ6 had a Gateway License. I'd be surprised if the license doesn't remain while the name changes.

Quote from: soltakss;878729My gut feeling is that the new RuneQuest will be a good system

Yeah, it probably will be. Possibly a very good game. Not sure it will beat the current edition, but with 3 high-end games - Call of Cthulhu and Glorantha RuneQuest and HeroQuest - Chaosium might become a contender again.

Quote from: soltakss;878729My gut feeling is that the new RuneQuest will be a good system.

It will probably be different from RQ5/6, but RQ5/6 were very different from earlier versions of RQ.

Pulling back to a more traditional RQ with the improvements made for RQ5/6 might be a good thing.

We can use the RQ5/6 improvements and the new RuneQuest ideas, with things from other versions.

Based on the blog entries, it does seem that both CRQ and RQ6 will be using the same core dice mechanic, skill calculation and HP calculation. The big question is magic. RQ2 used the Power characteristic as an expendable, replenishable resource, while RQ6 doesn't. It's the trickiest part of converting Gloranthan cults and magic over to RQ6 and a big part of why I was looking forward to AiG.

One solution would be to use GRQ as the base, then attach RQ6 parts such as Special Effects to it. The thing is that I am really not fond of the whole "Power as resource" mechanic. Aside from mechanical issues, it felt thematically wrong in its effects.

Power is defined in the text as the attention of the gods, and builds up an aura that diminishes stealth. If the biggest magical workings in the game require spending Power to acquire, it means that the Rune Priest who has just loaded up on powerful Rune Magic that he can use has lowered the strength of his aura and become more nondescript.  

Perhaps the best way to get away from the Power economy is to treat the cost of Rune Magic the way RQ6 treats enchanting items. The cost of the Rune Magic gives a penalty to your Magic Point total rather than costing Power. Maybe these penalties can be removed over time by performing quests for your cult, giving a mechanical equivalent to buy gaining more Power in RQ2.

Or who knows. Maybe the new edition won't even have this issue, and I won't need to play around with it.

Quote from: estar;878581Hence my comment that Chaosium is exhibiting 1990s mentality in the 2010s. It not their production calendar that effected by the decision it is TDM's calendar. All they have to do is say "We allow TDM to release Adventures in Glorantha at the previously agreed royalty rates.". "We allow to for TMD to use continue to use the Runequest trademark in their products."

The relative numbers greatly favor Glorantha fans however in absolute terms we are talking a potential market of around 8,000 to 10,000 for Glorantha and probably 1,000 to 1,500 for Runequest 6. This is assuming that both companies attract additional sales 5 time in excess of backers. And I could be wrong about this in regards to TDM because Runequest 6 is a platinum seller on DriveThruRPG.


This is not a big market here. The idea that brand dilution is going to harm anybody in this situation is ludicrous. Especially when Heroquest Glorantha is not shutting down, nor is 13th age Glorantha.

With a market this small personal factors become very important. And the relevant factor is that there are a group that like the work that Pete and Loz do. This mess alienated that group. The only reason that it isn't a bigger mess is because the new management at Chaosium have the original guys behind Glorantha and Runequest as part of their team. And they are showing some love for the RQ2 rather than shoving a new and improved approach down everybody's throats.

Hence my opinion that in general Chaosium is making good moves except when it comes to TDM and Runequest 6. My opinion is that they should let them continue to use the Runequest trademark in some form. Perhaps not as Runequest 6 maybe something like Classic Fantasy powered by Runequest. And by all means let them release Adventures in Glorantha.

Quote from: estar;878600It already fragmented and won't be put back together. The d100 system behind Runequest is effectively open content. So what matters is what a company does with a system not the fact they are exclusive publishers of that system.

Because of the small size of the market it would in their best interest to incorporate everybody who proven competent at dealing with Runequest and Glorantha rather than exclude them.

The 90s way is thinking that by forcing everybody to use the same system you will reunite the fanbase. The 2010 way is to forge a community around the shared history of Runequest and Glorantha. With Chaosium as the clear leader. Similar to what Wizards did with 5e and classic D&D. So while you have multiple system the community is re-united with people freely switching and interacting with different yet similar systems.

Well, my opinion happens to coincide with these two posts.
Of course, it is clear we're not going to see AiG, so all we can do is wait and see what we're going to get with RQ7, when it's done.

Quote from: CRKrueger;878657Not mention the fact that if you presume all RQ6 fans hate Glorantha (which is certainly NOT the case), many of them still would have bought all the RQ7 products that were filled with new game system mechanics.

Adventure in Glorantha had 352 Rune Spells (Theist in RQ6).  352.  Not to mention brand new versions of Shamanism and Sorcery.  As long as the RQ7 line products combined RQ6 rules expansions and setting content, people would have done what they always do with such books.  Buy for the rules, ignore the setting.  You think the person who bought the 50 page preview of AiG for $1000 dollars did it for small amount of rehashed setting content or for a ton of exclusive rules for the system that now cannot be published?

Chaosium just lost the sales of a ton of books.  It's not that they are serving Glorantha-philes, Glorantha-philes get served no matter the system, it's that they are specifically deciding to NOT sell to people who like the RQ6 system and would have bought rules expansions to mine for any setting.

They are step by step repeating WotC 4e disaster.
1. Take a decades old traditional system and toss narrative mechanics in. (CoC7)
2. Take a decent chunk of people you could make money off and fire them. (Dumping RQ6 rules)
3. Tell everyone involved to go fuck themselves in the process. (Pulling AiG and calling the new game RQ4)

I still don't know if WotC would count 4e as a "disaster", but the part about people buying books to mine for rules is a solid one. I've seen that happen often enough.

Quote from: soltakss;878729My gut feeling is that the new RuneQuest will be a good system.

It will probably be different from RQ5/6, but RQ5/6 were very different from earlier versions of RQ.

Pulling back to a more traditional RQ with the improvements made for RQ5/6 might be a good thing.

We can use the RQ5/6 improvements and the new RuneQuest ideas, with things from other versions.

Sure we can. I'm pretty sure I would.
But my gut feeling is that at least some fans would be lost in the process.

Quote from: estar;878736I have been considering it for awhile as Legends is open content. Which why I been participating in the kickstarters and trying out the rules in order to get a feel for how the system works.

Legend is a good bet as it is similar to RQ6 and does not need a licence.

Supplements can contain no Open Game Content, which means it is protected in the same way as for other systems.

FWIW, Legend pulling a platinum rating on DriveThru could be down to Mongoose selling it for a dollar - at that price, you don't really know how many of its buyers actually really dig the system and how many decided that $1 was enough for a quick look at the thing.

Sales levels of Legend supplements might be a better guide. Though I understand that they (and core Legend, for that matter) have suffered from the classic Mongoose editing problem (the problem being that Mongoose don't bother editing their stuff if they can get away with it).

And I've yet to see anyone seriously say they prefer Legend to RQ6, which isn't surprising given that RQ6 is basically Legend: the Director's Cut.

Oh, and the latest designer's notes go into detail on the decision-making process behind Chaosium moving away from RQ6:AiG.

RQ6 definitely has higher production values than Legend. I see the differences between the two rules the same way I see TSR era D&D, i.e. minor in most aspects.

Non-rules wise, I vastly prefer it being OGL compared to closed content. I lobbied for that on Mongoose's boards before it came out and was glad to see it happen. I've actually bought more from Mongoose's Legend line than RQ6 because of that very reason.

Also, Loz has confirmed over on The Big Purple that a) despite previews being available at GenCon, RQ6:AiG was not yet ready for prime time so it isn't the case that an essentially finished product was abruptly shitcanned and b) Moon Design made sure all of Pete and Loz's costs on producing AiG so far were covered so Design Mechanism didn't end up making a loss on their part of the development process.

Quote from: Warthur;878820Oh, and the latest designer's notes go into detail on the decision-making process behind Chaosium moving away from RQ6:AiG.

The decision behind going back to the version the entire design team is expert with and adding things from RQ6 (for example on BRPCentral all the new rules people are saying they really like are mainly from RQ6) and Pendragon and adjusting to fit the design teams vision of Glorantha makes sense, they are the design team and it's their license after all.  I think they are missing some obvious points in their decision, but it's not my decision to make.

However, there's nothing in there that talks about AiG and the decision to pull it.  They could have let AiG go forward and be the last RQ6 title and still did everything they wanted to with RQnext.  But that would have introduced competition and we would find out exactly what Econobus was looking for, hard number comparison between RQnext Glorantha and RQ6 Glorantha.

Something Chaosium obviously wants to avoid, so they deliberately spiked a mostly completed supplement, turning away their share of the profits, because they, assumedly, feel so threatened by it's existence in the marketplace.

The "new design note" is cut and pasted from other earlier posts I've seen.  I'm sure Richards would have done anything to not post that again, as Loz and Pete are very quickly becoming They Who Shall Not Be Named in any discussion involving RuneQuest.  They want people to ignore their behavior and shut up about things they've already decided and just move on.  Well, not even Google gets to do that.

Edit: I see they covered development costs in the settlement so that's something, even though all the work was lost.  Hopefully it can be rejiggered for The Game Formerly Known As Runequest6.