Quote from: estar;878464There is enough Runequest/TDM fans to fund a 30k Indiegogo campaign for the RQ6. I guess we will see what happens they try using it for new projects.

Hi Rob! Good point. I'm sure all those Runequest fans who hate Glorantha can work on that number and get it up closer to the $460K that the "other side" has managed to demonstrate.

Oh wait. You're right, I forgot about 13th Age, which isn't out yet but adds another $113K to the Glorantha side of the ledger.

So it's $30K for the haters that needs to become what, $570K before MD really has to sit up and take notice of how foolish they're being? Get to it, haters! Start organizing those communities to push the funds to the Mechanism! Make The Game Formerly Known As RQ6 the biggest success story the industry has seen in decades!

EDIT: but I am really curious where all the haters at besides this thread and its cousins on other sites. Because back in the day the perception was that Mythic Earth dropped like a rock and Avalon Hill had to bring in a lot of Glorantha content awful fast. Good to hear there was a huge cadre of Mythic Earth fans after all. It's a surprise. You've all been so quiet!

The downright silly amount of money Gloranthaphiles are willing to throw at projects is well known. The last (incomplete) beta-copy of RQ6 Adventures in Glorantha went for 1000 bucks on eBay - of course C/MD see where the money is, and of course C/MD want control of their IPs now when they finally can, and I really can't hold that against them.
Doesn't mean that I have to like that they gave Loz and Pete - who pretty much resuscitated RuneQuest - the middle finger in the process.

It's odd that people are trying to make this into simplistic Glorantha vs. non-Glorantha fans pissing match considering that one of the main things that many RQ6 fans are upset about is that Chaosium prevented the Glorantha supplement for RQ6 coming out. If this new edition was coming out in conjunction with Adventures in Glorantha, there wouldn't be as much animosity from RQ6 fans.  

It's also weird to think that there is a clean line between people that are Glorantha fans and people that use RQ for settings other than Glorantha. I like GLorantha just fine, but I also like using RuneQuest for other settings.

Quote from: estar;878314I understand the challenge. Do you go at it with your own approach? Or do you cater to an existing IP?

Our own. We'd rather not be beholden to the vagaries of other IP's.

QuoteFor me, with my sandbox fantasy stuff, and Majestic Wilderlands I opted to adapt it all using classic editions of D&D figuring that would get it into the hands of more people. I had no illusion about how much money I would make but I would like to see people actually using it. Hence the choice to use Sword & Wizardry.

Yep. I imagine most of us small timers aren't in it for the money, but to write stuff people enjoy.

QuoteI hope you guys succeed. Everybody at TDM does excellent work!

Thanks Estar.

That's quite the overgeneralization based on just crowdfunding numbers. I pledged money to the RQ6 Indie Gogo and to the Runequest Classic Kickstarter. I also don't particularly care for Glorantha and haven't been happy about a lot of the things the new Chaosium has chosen to do. I doubt I'm unique.

Quote from: econobus;878474Hi Rob! Good point. I'm sure all those Runequest fans who hate Glorantha can work on that number and get it up closer to the $460K that the "other side" has managed to demonstrate.

Oh wait. You're right, I forgot about 13th Age, which isn't out yet but adds another $113K to the Glorantha side of the ledger.

So it's $30K for the haters that needs to become what, $570K before MD really has to sit up and take notice of how foolish they're being? Get to it, haters! Start organizing those communities to push the funds to the Mechanism! Make The Game Formerly Known As RQ6 the biggest success story the industry has seen in decades!

EDIT: but I am really curious where all the haters at besides this thread and its cousins on other sites. Because back in the day the perception was that Mythic Earth dropped like a rock and Avalon Hill had to bring in a lot of Glorantha content awful fast. Good to hear there was a huge cadre of Mythic Earth fans after all. It's a surprise. You've all been so quiet!

Quote from: ptingler;878495That's quite the overgeneralization based on just crowdfunding numbers. I pledged money to the RQ6 Indie Gogo and to the Runequest Classic Kickstarter. I also don't particularly care for Glorantha and haven't been happy about a lot of the things the new Chaosium has chosen to do. I doubt I'm unique.

Awesome. Got a better benchmark? Because otherwise it's hard for anecdotes to add up to data, much less cash for the Mechanism to show MD where the real fans are. Right now I see some anecdotes and a few numbers on the crowdfund, community registration accounts, etc.

Quote from: econobus;878496Awesome. Got a better benchmark? Because otherwise it's hard for anecdotes to add up to data, much less cash for the Mechanism to show MD where the real fans are. Right now I see some anecdotes and a few numbers on the crowdfund, community registration accounts, etc.

 Regardless, you are missing the point that your argument is a strawman, at least in part.  Certainly, the new direction for RuneQuest  has some of (not all of) those who dislike Glorantha  opposed to it, but you ignore what has already been pointed out that it also has opposition from those who like Glorantha but prefer RQ6 to RQ2  and would have preferred to see something of Glorantha  come out for it.  There is also opposition from those who like both  ( or do not care about either ) who think that there have been far too many new editions of RQ  in far too short a time and would have preferred to have stuck with the most recent edition for future releases.

 And I would hazard that the latter two groups hold a more firmly held opposition than the former.

Quote from: Sytthas;878505And I would hazard that the latter two groups hold a more firmly held opposition than the former.

Sure, but where are the numbers that prove they were buying before and will now stop . . . the numbers that support, you know, the "Chaosium fumbles fatally" argument? That's all I'm agitating for. Otherwise, I can't tell where a few people's deep and passionate opinion ends and the real business disaster starts.

And of course if the firmly held opposition organizes to send funding to the Mechanism, I bet Loz and Pete wouldn't mind.

Quote from: econobus;878506Sure, but where are the numbers that prove they were buying before and will now stop . . . the numbers that support, you know, the "Chaosium fumbles fatally" argument? That's all I'm agitating for. Otherwise, I can't tell where a few people's deep and passionate opinion ends and the real business disaster starts.

And of course if the firmly held opposition organizes to send funding to the Mechanism, I bet Loz and Pete wouldn't mind.

Seeing as there was no, and apparently never will be, any Glorantha  material for RQ6  to my knowledge, an opportunity to generate the numbers you're seeking was never provided.

Quote from: Sytthas;878507Seeing as there was no, and apparently never will be, any Glorantha  material for RQ6  to my knowledge, an opportunity to generate the numbers you're seeking was never provided.

You never know. As The Game Formerly Known As RQ6 continues to evolve and, I hope, build a passionate audience, the negotiating table may open back up. If MD sees compelling numbers, strange things happen.

But when I came in here, the thread seemed to me to focus on how the non-Glorantha RQ fans are getting cut out of the publishing cycle. That struck me as odd because I was unaware of there being that many non-Glorantha RQ fans, so I asked: where are they all at? The only numbers I see point in the other direction.

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Quote from: Warthur;878265Is it, though? Or are we echo chambering like crazy here?

I do not 'hate' Glorantha... I'm just not interested enough to want to play in that setting. For me it was always the 'sample setting' of RQ, kind of like the vague examples in RQ6 and Magic World. I used some of it and ignored the rest.
The same with the setting books that came out for RQ3. I bought most all the Glorantha stuff... while NEVER having any desire to run a game there, just to mine it for ideas because it was still more interesting, IMO, than most of the D&D stuff I was seeing. My Apple Lane was somewhere else.
AND we got Mythic Earth stuff as well, cool!

I'd rather have had a Glorantha sourcebook for RQ6 or the BGB or Magic World... which I could ignore or mine for compatible ideas... but what's coming seems like it will be far less use to me... AND it bumped anything for BRP/Magic World off the map.
So I've got some resentment towards it, and the Glorantha-philes pushing for it... but it's far from 'hate'.

Quote from: econobus;878496Awesome. Got a better benchmark? Because otherwise it's hard for anecdotes to add up to data, much less cash for the Mechanism to show MD where the real fans are. Right now I see some anecdotes and a few numbers on the crowdfund, community registration accounts, etc.

Nothing on indiegogo can match Kickstarter for eyeballs.  Also part of that money you're claiming is for a systemless Glorantha book that anyone, current gamer or not, could buy and just read, and a coffeetable Atlas.  Hell I've never played in Glorantha and I almost bought the Atlas.

People claiming non-Glorantha RQ would make more money than Gloranthan RQ?  Well I don't know who actually claimed that, but people usually don't become Fanatical Fans of systems (at least not non-Forgey ones), but there are 40 years of Glorantha Fans out there.

That doesn't excuse spiking AiG and fucking the guys who kept your brand name relevant for 6 years while you were asleep at the wheel.

"Oh, the RuneQuest name is actually worth something now?  Good job guys, we'll take that back, thanks.  Oh, flush the last year of work on that finished book down the toilet too while you're busy going and fucking yourselves."

The last 2 pages have been rather weird.

Since when are we forced to conform our RPG tastes to Kickstarter's crowfunding numbers?

Anyway I'll just provide my personal single point of data: I've always been a Glorantha fan; I own a metric fuckton of the old material and I've purchased the GtG and backed their recent RQ2 Kickstarter, but I couldn't care less about Glorantha's latest editorial direction. And it has much more to do with the tonal shift than with system's shenanigans. If it stays as it is now, it's extremely unlikely I'll purchase any new books in the line.

Not sure which faction this ascribes me to, but I won't lose any sleep over it...

If the work for AiG has been done but they are now not allowed to sell it, is there anything legally stopping TDFM giving it away for free? Honest (and most likely naive) question, I know nothing about the law. Or can the retcon it to the Glorantha fan licence thing that is allowing D101 Games to keep publishing Glorantha material?

Quote from: CRKrueger;878455His income partly depends on playing nice, remember.

Income? Hah! I wish ...