Which method do you use in your games for character creation?

Which one do you think works best?

I normally go with stat array, but you might feel that it's too constraining to express your character. In which case you'd go with point buy. Or if you like the thrill of randomness, rolling.

I use point buy, but I'm mostly in organized play where it's the only option (although the standard array can be bought with point buy, I think?).

Although you can't start a character with an 18 or higher by point buy, I think that's mostly a good thing; it leaves room to advance later. But you don't get unusually high or low arrays, and those can be fun to play too. In particular you can't start with anything below 8, which seems a bigger loss (since it's not often that it would go down).

Rolling, always rolling.

Stat array.

Not only is it simple and fair, it's also useful in reinforcing the abstraction inherent in the stats.

That is, if you are picking 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8, you are really just prioritising what you are good at, and one thing that your aren't good at. The stats themselves mean nothing beyond that really. And it must be noted that you add to stats through levelling up these days, so you can see really progresses in the bonuses provided.

Random isn't fair. Many groups end up allowing rerolls if somebody rolls appallingly badly - but what can they do when someone rolls ridiculously high? In the dynamic of a balanced party it's unfair.

Points Buy encourages a boring level of min/maxing strategizing by some players. I had one character declare how cool it was he could get 13 on every Ability ('No weaknesses'). The point that his character was utterly uninteresting was lost on him.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;877582Stat array.

Not only is it simple and fair, it's also useful in reinforcing the abstraction inherent in the stats.

That is, if you are picking 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8, you are really just prioritising what you are good at, and one thing that your aren't good at. The stats themselves mean nothing beyond that really. And it must be noted that you add to stats through levelling up these days, so you can see really progresses in the bonuses provided.

Random isn't fair. Many groups end up allowing rerolls if somebody rolls appallingly badly - but what can they do when someone rolls ridiculously high? In the dynamic of a balanced party it's unfair.

Points Buy encourages a boring level of min/maxing strategizing by some players. I had one character declare how cool it was he could get 13 on every Ability ('No weaknesses'). The point that his character was utterly uninteresting was lost on him.

Is the lack of fairness always a bad thing? Besides that is it really all that unfair? I mean if it's random via dice then really it's just a matter of probability in that dice range, which is the same regardless of player. I'd say in the context of a game that's fair enough. Particularly if you are doing something along the lines of 4d6 drop the lowest.

Random rolls in character generation are unfair because you are stuck with them.

If you make a random roll in normal gameplay, you can say it's just the same probability roll as anyone else.....but there is always another random roll ahead to look forward too. In the case of chargen, you could just end up with a character you don't want to play, or alongside another player whose character is simply better than yours.

I do see the fun in just taking pot luck every now and then, and am not arguing for the whole idea to be removed. But in my D&D campaigns, these days, stat array is the way to go (and the players themselves are happy with it too).

Quote from: TrippyHippy;877599Random rolls in character generation are unfair because you are stuck with them.

If you make a random roll in normal gameplay, you can say it's just the same probability roll as anyone else.....but there is always another random roll ahead to look forward too. In the case of chargen, you could just end up with a character you don't want to play, or alongside another player whose character is simply better than yours.

I do see the fun in just taking pot luck every now and then, and am not arguing for the whole idea to be removed. But in my D&D campaigns, these days, stat array is the way to go (and the players themselves are happy with it too).

Different perspectives I suppose, no right way to game just different kinds of fun.

Quote from: rawma;877578(although the standard array can be bought with point buy, I think?).

Although you can't start a character with an 18 or higher by point buy, I think that's mostly a good thing; it leaves room to advance later. But you don't get unusually high or low arrays, and those can be fun to play too. In particular you can't start with anything below 8, which seems a bigger loss (since it's not often that it would go down).

Yes. you can recreate the array with 5es point buy.

A human can hit 16 out the gate, some of the demi-humans can hit 17. With the stat cap of 20 this is important if feats are not being allowed as you will hit the cap of your primary at some point.

As for personal pref.
I like rolling. Either O/BX's roll 3 and shuffle, or AD&Ds roll 4 keep three highest.

But in the campaign I am currently playing in with Jan and Kefra. Once it wraps up we have discussed playing with new characters created with point buy and everyone the same class. We havent decided yet what class.

My online 5e game uses the default array, which works great. My tabletop game uses point buy, or pregens with the default array.

IME rolling best 3 of 4d6 in order works great in my Classic D&D campaign to create organic-feeling PCs, and there INT 10 on a Wizard is no barrier to greatness. It works fine in AD&D too. But the 3e/4e/5e attribute modifiers (12 = +1, 14 + +2, 16= +3, 18 = +4 etc) work terribly with rolling, creating underpowered & overpowered PCs. It's particularly bad with arrange-as-desired, which might as well be 'variable point buy'.

The modifiers may indeed be a major factor. They aren't D&D5e, but the random rolling chargens of classic D&D, RuneQuest and Traveller work largely because the bonuses only come into play at the highest or lowest points of the scale. The mechanical difference between, say, an 8 and a 13 is negligible.

I let the players choose between all three.

However, last group (D&D 5e) had a tiny bit of friction because the resident power gamer rolled up, in front of everyone: 18, 17, 17, 15, 14 and 12, before any racial adjustments. Not much to do about that, but it makes me more likely to suggest point-buy in the future.

Quote from: Necrozius;877693I let the players choose between all three.

However, last group (D&D 5e) had a tiny bit of friction because the resident power gamer rolled up, in front of everyone: 18, 17, 17, 15, 14 and 12, before any racial adjustments. Not much to do about that, but it makes me more likely to suggest point-buy in the future.

You don't mandate one method for consistency?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;877713You don't mandate one method for consistency?

Now I probably will (because of that crazy high stat array that I mentioned). It would be more fair and, as you said, consistent. Less wild ranges between PC stats.

Random or Point Buy, depending on the type of campaign.

Standard Array tends to favor non-humans as you don't get the "3 or more odd number stats to warrant non-variant human." And even variant human benefits from Point Buy over Standard Array because you can cook up two 15s easily for a solid two 16s start. You end up wasting less points in floating odd numbers, and you can focus remaining point-buy on your weakpoints within the ever-popular big three saves of  DEX, CON, WIS. Every class starts with respect to one of those, and CYA for the remaining two big saves is rarely a bad idea.

Quote from: Opaopajr;877724Random or Point Buy, depending on the type of campaign.

Standard Array tends to favor non-humans as you don't get the "3 or more odd number stats to warrant non-variant human." And even variant human benefits from Point Buy over Standard Array because you can cook up two 15s easily for a solid two 16s start. You end up wasting less points in floating odd numbers, and you can focus remaining point-buy on your weakpoints within the ever-popular big three saves of  DEX, CON, WIS. Every class starts with respect to one of those, and CYA for the remaining two big saves is rarely a bad idea.

What type do you use random for and what type for point buy.