Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;875526I just think your opinion of the system is disingenuous.

Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think I'm lying about what my opinion of the system is?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;875630So, in essence, Bren, what you're saying is you hate change.

No. Im pretty sure he is saying that he grocks the mechanic. But he just doesnt want to deal with the extra layer of mechanic.

Simmilar came up way back with TORG. The cards added an extra layer to the role playing that some didnt like. They grasped the mechanic easily enough. They just didnt LIKE the mechanic. Or saw it as a mechanic for something that didnt need one. Same as how some look at the Inspiration mechanic in 5e D&D.

Now add in the extra little twist that its represented with some icons.

For some its simple. Others struggle with it.

Quote from: Omega;875668No. Im pretty sure he is saying that he grocks the mechanic. But he just doesnt want to deal with the extra layer of mechanic.

He just stated that it's something new he doesn't want to learn.  That's pretty self-explanatory.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;875670He just stated that it's something new he doesn't want to learn.  That's pretty self-explanatory.

I read it more as not wanting to learn a needless veneer of complexity the icons add. If they had been pips or numbers or more easily parsed icons he wouldnt have likely baulked.

But he can explain for himself. Maybee we are both guessing wrong.

Then again there are players who hate reading roll tables and would have baulked there too. As usual. There is no winning.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;875630So, in essence, Bren, what you're saying is you hate change.

No.

If that was what I was saying I'd have said that.

I like numbers and letters. Icons don't do much for me and are sometimes actively annoying or confusing as I have to associate a word with a picture rather than working directly with the word. Sorry if that wasn't completely clear.

It's definitely not a new vs. old thing. It is based on how I process information. As another example, I far prefer digital clocks to analog clocks. Reading the hands on the clock is cumbersome for me compared with reading off the number. I grew up in a world where all the clocks were analog, but once digital watches and clocks became available I readily adopted them.

EDIT:

Quote from: Omega;875673I read it more as not wanting to learn a needless veneer of complexity the icons add. If they had been pips or numbers or more easily parsed icons he wouldnt have likely baulked.

But he can explain for himself. Maybee we are both guessing wrong.

You got it Omega.

Quote from: Brander;875614But I enjoyed making and playing my Droid and once the GM stopped making us interpret every die roll and went to the standard values for the fiddly die results (sorry I forget exactly what those were) the dice weren't quite as annoying, just still a pointless complexity IMHO.

And this is exactly what I tell people that hem-and-haw about "trying to interpret" the dice. There are default values that you can go with if the GM/players can't think on their feet quickly. And they work nicely.

I've heard that the FFG Star Wars dice are more colour-blind friendly than the WFRP 3e ones, so that's good. Red and green d8s? oops...

(...yeah I know that the symbols are what are important, but still...)

Quote from: Necrozius;875731I've heard that the FFG Star Wars dice are more colour-blind friendly than the WFRP 3e ones, so that's good. Red and green d8s? oops...

(...yeah I know that the symbols are what are important, but still...)

For the RPG the Red one is a d12 and the Green one is a d8. So even if colour blind it wouldn't matter as long as you can tell the red, white and yellow d12s apart. And the icons are different on each. Same for the Purple and Green d8s.

Quote from: tenbones;875690And this is exactly what I tell people that hem-and-haw about "trying to interpret" the dice. There are default values that you can go with if the GM/players can't think on their feet quickly. And they work nicely.

As I am a person who did not like interpreting the dice, if the game is played more like a traditional rpg for success/failure then what is the benefit of using FFG's version instead of one of the multitude of Star Wars rpgs sitting in my basement where the success/failure is already straightforward?  

Granting that I am only famiar with the starter set and the full game may have some more spiffiness, but it seemed to me the entire point of using FFG was for folks who like the dice interpretation method and if used as traditional success/failure would be overly engineered.

Quote from: Snowman0147;875470Alright I give you that.  Doesn't change the fact that if it was not for the Star Wars label the game wouldn't sell at all.  Before anyone ask yes I did played the game and I know how the dice works.  I still find it to be shit and frankly your better off with the d6 Star Wars.  Hell your better off with the Saga Edition if you ever manage to get that book.

Cool, so the fact that I've already converted the system to Cyberpunk and Wild West must also have something to do with Star Wars? Cool thanks for letting me know it all had something to do with IP.

P.S. I have never liked the WEG version. However, unlike you I'm not saying because I don't like it there's no value to it.

For my part, while I understood the dice, I didn't like them very much. I didn't hate them, but I didn't really think that they were worth the trouble.

To clarify, and I haven't thought very much about this, the special dice didn't seem to go very far towards producing unexpected or interesting outcomes (in the sense that they didn't create outcomes that were unavailable by using ordinary dice). That is, the dice didn't seem to make either the game or the narrative noticeably more interesting, although they did make it a bit slower.

That could just have been a failure on the part of our table, I guess.

Quote from: Bren;875688I like numbers and letters. Icons don't do much for me and are sometimes actively annoying or confusing as I have to associate a word with a picture rather than working directly with the word. Sorry if that wasn't completely clear.

I think that's a very common and reasonable response.

Introducing an 'icon level' translation layer adds no value to the game, but only additional, unnecessary complexity. That unnecessary complexity provides specific benefit to FFG, but not the user, which makes it even more onerous.

We have a lot of different choices for delivery systems for Star Wars content, so it makes sense to stick with those rather than whatever FFG has to offer.

Quote from: Lynn;876081I think that's a very common and reasonable response.

To be fair, I am not the customer FFG is looking for.

I like the WEG game (with a the single caveat that lightsaber vs. lightsaber combat doesn't work well; the quest for a better system for duels is what originally led me to Honor+Intrigue). And I have a bunch of the old WEG adventures that I've never even run (typically I make up my own stuff). So I easily have enough material to run D6 Star Wars for the rest of my natural life. And the tone of the new movie is much more like the WEG adventures and than it is like the prequels. So setting something in that time period would be easy and require little to no conversion.  

So the bar for me adopting a different system is already pretty high. Custom dice makes it that much harder for a new system to get over the bar.

Clearly there is a market for dice mechanics that simplify arithmetic. (I never said there wasn't. I only said that I wasn't looking for simplified arithmetic.) WEG did it themselves in the Xena/Hercules games that replaced summation of dice with counting successes and special D6 dice with symbols for success, nothing, and failure. I didn't like success counting and I hated needing custom dice or a look up. But then I never found adding up D6s to be a burden (pair or group dice to sum to 10, count the 10s, count the leftovers, easy peasy).

One of my pet peeves of WEG's system was anything with with a high physical stat was literally immune to blaster fire.  Wookkies, Trandoshans, Gamorreans...

Don't get me wrong, I loved the system to bits, but serious parts of it were kinda borked.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;876103One of my pet peeves of WEG's system was anything with with a high physical stat was literally immune to blaster fire.  Wookkies, Trandoshans, Gamorreans...

Don't get me wrong, I loved the system to bits, but serious parts of it were kinda borked.

So you are saying that lizard people, carpet people, and pig people cant dodge or shrug off stuff?