For the curious this is the layout of the FFG SW dice. Its also a sticker sheet. Not sure of its the official one?



These dice are not used with X-Wing or with Imperial Assault.

Quote from: Snowman0147;875485That is exactly my point Omega.  To this day people still play black box D&D with no issues.  Can you say the same for FFG Star Wars forty years down the road?  The other Star Wars won't have this issue.

IME if an RPGer has kept or is willing to source books that are 30+ years OOP, they won't have an issue using and/or modding polyhedral dice to play it (or programming their own dice app if we are talking 40 years from now).

As for black box D&D, its only 25 years old, so it fails by your own test. TBH putting the bar for success for any RPG at "as successful as D&D" just shows that you know how weak your argument is.

Quote from: Omega;875578For the curious this is the layout of the FFG SW dice. Its also a sticker sheet.

Pretty. But confusing. Like those European ideographs they put on automobile controls instead of using words in English* like "Heat" "Cool" "Defrost" or "Fan."



* As god intended.

Quote from: Omega;875578For the curious this is the layout of the FFG SW dice. Its also a sticker sheet. Not sure of its the official one?



These dice are not used with X-Wing or with Imperial Assault.

It's official, and it's only confusing if you don't have any of the core books.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;875593It's official, and it's only confusing if you don't have any of the core books.

It can be confusing even if you've got the books. The funky dice are the single reason my group stayed away from the games because several people weren't sure about them and one guy came right out and said he didn't want to come home after working all day and put that much effort into deciphering his dice rolls.

We're all different. Some people get the symbols without issue, but for others they are an absolute turn-off. It's much how some people love FATE but others just never grok Aspects.

I just bought 6 sets (one set in each beginner box, + 3 retail sets). That way, there should be enough on both sides of the screen! :-)

Also, I thought the dice were going to be complicated. Until I played it with newbs. Now I know, it's intuitive and fast. Fun results.

The dice complexity is overrated. I was skeptical of the dice at first like many gamers, but I read through the Edge of the Empire beginner set and I figured it in about five minutes. I'm thinking of actually running an Episode VII game online with the rules but maybe starting the party off with more experience.

According to those criteria I suppose fudge and fate are doomed....

Guess no one told Fate.

Quote from: Endless Flight;875603The dice complexity is overrated. I was skeptical of the dice at first like many gamers, but I read through the Edge of the Empire beginner set and I figured it in about five minutes.

And I actually ran that beginner game to try the system out. Like I said, for some people the dice are no problem, but for others they are a significant deterrent. That's why I'd recommend anyone looking to get into FFG's SW games try one of the beginner games first to see how their group likes it. If all goes well, they can start splurging on books plus they got a set out of the dice out of it. And if people don't care for the game, then at least it wasn't much of an investment.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;875593It's official, and it's only confusing if you don't have any of the core books.

To you or me. And I dont even need the books.

But design-wise I think some of the symbols are a little too similar. Too many vaugly circular shapes. Yeah I know some are from the source. But still. Design 101: Every additional hurdle to learning a game is a potential player lost. Note that FFG thought to add the conversion tables. Good planning on their part.

I've played White Wolf Games, the concept (to me, and maybe me only) was very similar, so after a game or two, I grasped the dice decently enough.

I'm in the "HATED the dice" but "had fun playing it nonetheless" crowd.

Oddly the person at the table who was best at reading the dice hated them too.

But I enjoyed making and playing my Droid and once the GM stopped making us interpret every die roll and went to the standard values for the fiddly die results (sorry I forget exactly what those were) the dice weren't quite as annoying, just still a pointless complexity IMHO.

Quote from: Bren;875589Pretty. But confusing. Like those European ideographs they put on automobile controls instead of using words in English* like "Heat" "Cool" "Defrost" or "Fan."



* As god intended.

6 symbols is confusing?

Quote from: Sommerjon;8756256 symbols is confusing?

At best, unnecessary. I already possess dice with pips and numbers that I am very familiar with using and I am perfectly fluent in the Roman alphabet if for some reason numbers don't suffice. I don't need the gimmick of dice with tiny pictures. If I want to puzzle over pictures I can dig out one of my sets of Rory's Story Cubes. When I use those I'm trying to generate new ideas so speed of comprehension isn't really the point. When I roll dice in an RPG I want the mechanics to be easily comprehensible so they get out of the way of the play. Pictures don't do that for me.

I gave the example of the the icons on automotive controls. Exit signage and that on men's and women's rest rooms is another example. The icons are these sorts of things.

Spoiler

I hate them. I miss the controls that said "Defrost" or signs that said "EXIT" or "MEN", but I suspect (or at least I hope) my opinion is a minority one since those sorts of icons have become the standard.

So, in essence, Bren, what you're saying is you hate change.