Quote from: Christopher Brady;871261To be fair, the U.S. seems to be REALLY up tight about it, though.  More so than most other countries.

What countries do you have in mind though. A lot of Asian and Middle Eastern countries are much more conservative about sex than the US. Some of those places might say the US is too open with sex. There are plenty of countries out there that are uptight about sex and don't have anywhere near the number of strip clubs, adult bookstores and other adult venues we do. I think what one can maybe say about the US is we are conflicted about it, there is a kind of thing where sexy is ubiquitous in our media but also kind of shameful. But I really think that is largely a product of the country's size and polarized population. From the outside looking in, I don't think people understand that our television is meant to appeal to people living in both really conservative sections of the midwest and really open cities on the coasts.

I was referring to the fact that anyone calls rpg players sickos because of chain mail bikinis we can point out 50 Shades of Gray which is so love by the mainstream.  In other words people got no room to talk.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;871274What countries do you have in mind though. A lot of Asian and Middle Eastern countries are much more conservative about sex than the US.

I was thinking of Canada, Britain, the rest of the European Commonwealth.  Some African nations, I've been told about, so take that with a grain of salt.

Quote from: Elfdart;871271As long as Tywin Lannister reads it...

I prefer Gilbert Gottfried's 50 Shades audio book

Quote from: Snowman0147;871275I was referring to the fact that anyone calls rpg players sickos because of chain mail bikinis we can point out 50 Shades of Gray which is so love by the mainstream.  In other words people got no room to talk.

Mind you, there is no shortage of Outraged folks telling the (mostly women) fans of 50 Shades they're bad people and should feel bad*. The American outlook on sex is complicated to say the least. We have billion dollar porn industry that no one one consumes, after all.

*For example,. the college humor videos are, as usual for them, more laughing at than laughing with.

Yeah well it doesn't look like they have much of a impact.  In fact it appears that people as a whole just ignored the outrage people.

What eroticism?

Sure, there's nekkid boobies and callbacks to the 70s, but I've never found them to be erotic as delivered.

Eroticism is like horror in RPGs: you have to be willing to let your fellow players evoke those emotions in you. And honestly, I find it very hard to go there in a game consisting of nothing but 40 something guys.

Luckily, I don't have to do that

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;871208Casual murder in action movies has rarely earned them or their red-blooded man's man fans much opprobrium at all, so I don't see your point.

You don't see a distinction between passively watching an entertainment in which waxing innocents is something universally restricted to the Bad Guys, and getting together with your friends to fantasize about Killing Them And Taking Their Stuff?  This in the same country where a 10 year old caught doodling guns in the margin of his notebook will be dragged from the school in handcuffs?  Okay, if you say so.

Quote from: Ravenswing;871328You don't see a distinction between passively watching an entertainment in which waxing innocents is something universally restricted to the Bad Guys, and getting together with your friends to fantasize about Killing Them And Taking Their Stuff?  This in the same country where a 10 year old caught doodling guns in the margin of his notebook will be dragged from the school in handcuffs?  Okay, if you say so.

I see a diverse nation that...

A) Has complex and nuanced feelings about depictions of violence but on the whole gives them an obvious pass.

B) Has complex and nuanced feelings about depictions of sex but on the whole publicly glowers at them.

Also, I would argue that at this stage fantasy videogames, novels and movies have mostly solidified the public impression that, in such genres, the players kill obvious monsters and villains, regardless of how many tabletop groups murder innocents (which I don't think is the dominant mode of play despite anecdotes). From everything I've encountered I conclude that tabletop RPers are mainly stereotyped as weird obsessive childish losers who won't amount to much, not murderous psychopaths.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;871274There are plenty of countries out there that are uptight about sex and don't have anywhere near the number of strip clubs, adult bookstores and other adult venues we do.

Well of course we have those. What good is being a nation of uptight-about-sex people if we can't then sell it back to you for $20 a striptease or $19.99 per book/DVD? :-D

QuoteI think what one can maybe say about the US is we are conflicted about it, there is a kind of thing where sexy is ubiquitous in our media but also kind of shameful.

As a Slovakian woman I went to college with (and marginally dated) phrased it, "In the rest of the world, sex is a fact. In the US, sex is something to be ashamed of, and then obsess about because of it." I think she's right.

Quote from: Omega;871217The publics general view of gamers is that they are a bunch of puritanical prudes who have insane ideas of what "sexist" and "erotic" are.

When you have loons trotting this out as eroticist, sexist, misogynist, etc ad nudiumist. That is how RPGs can and are getting viewed.

 

Be honest, outside of one, single, specific, barely-relevant-to-gaming-as-a-whole forum that seems to be the other obsession over here, when's the last time you've seen anyone say that?

Quote from: Willie the Duck;871351Well of course we have those. What good is being a nation of uptight-about-sex people if we can't then sell it back to you for $20 a striptease or $19.99 per book/DVD? :-D



As a Slovakian woman I went to college with (and marginally dated) phrased it, "In the rest of the world, sex is a fact. In the US, sex is something to be ashamed of, and then obsess about because of it." I think she's right.

Again though, it is a big country. Attitudes toward sex in New York or Northern California are very different from attitudes in Idaho or Kentucky. The attitude your friend describes isn't one I've really encountered a whole lot here in the north east. You might see it among the really religious but even then the surrounding culture doesn't really care what you do. We still are not as laid back about it as some European countries but people where I live don't spend a lot of time feeling ashamed for their sex lives.

To bring it back to gaming, I don't think the presence of erotic material has ever been an issue for people I have gamed with locally. Every group varies of course but the only reaction one might get is some eye rolls if you are that guy or girl who brings the book of erotic fantasy to every game. But sex coming up on some form isn't a big deal at the table as long as people are handling it like adults and not like ten year olds.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;871351As a Slovakian woman I went to college with (and marginally dated) phrased it, "In the rest of the world, sex is a fact. In the US, sex is something to be ashamed of, and then obsess about because of it." I think she's right.

While there's definitely a nugget of truth in that I take it with a grain of salt. Usually "everyone in the word but..." expressions tend to mean "Everyone in my circle that thinks like I do and media that supports my opinion." And its really easy to see the mote in someone's eye and miss the beam in yours, if you even bother looking.

 Especially when it comes to young people.

There are as many fucked up misconceptions about the US in other nations as the US has fucked up misconceptions about other nations.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;871351Be honest, outside of one, single, specific, barely-relevant-to-gaming-as-a-whole forum that seems to be the other obsession over here, when's the last time you've seen anyone say that?

That the Aleena pic was sexist? A couple of other sites, or simmilar depictions of women in armour. The usual snide comment of "boob armor" pops up fairly frequently still with the moron brigade.

Well, I don't like "boob armor" because the deflection surfaces are wrong.  But that's because I'm a historical European medieval armor nerd.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;871349Also, I would argue that at this stage fantasy videogames, novels and movies have mostly solidified the public impression that, in such genres, the players kill obvious monsters and villains, regardless of how many tabletop groups murder innocents (which I don't think is the dominant mode of play despite anecdotes). From everything I've encountered I conclude that tabletop RPers are mainly stereotyped as weird obsessive childish losers who won't amount to much, not murderous psychopaths.

If they think about them at all.  I'm totally open about playing and most adults my age or older just give me a vaguely baffled look.

Also, the "kill all the villagers" trope seems to exist mostly within gaming, not outside of it, as you point out.  I've seen it a few times... less than 5... in all my years of gaming, and at least in one case the entire declared point of the game was "let's be the Wild Bunch and do more and more horrible things until we're exterminated in a blaze of gunfire."