There's some parts of old-school play that seem to like to emphasize a certain amount of erotic content; usually of the slightly sophomoric 'sleazy' variety, without ever really going into full-on sordid, and generally acting much more 'dangerous' than it really is.  I mean stuff like some of what you see in some of James Desborough's stuff (Machinations of the Space Princess), or some of Venger Satanis' work.

But I've never actually met gamers who tend to like to get into that stuff in actual play.  If you read my DCC campaign logs, some of it certainly sounds really very sordid, but in actual play almost all of the erotic stuff is only implied and/or happens totally 'off-camera'.

What about everyone else here?  What do you think about this type of 'sleazy' play like Desborough seems to want to push?

Also, would your answer be any different if it was much more explicit and offensive stuff like the "rape an 11 year old virgin 11 times" stuff you see in Carcosa?

RPGPundit

I'm a big fan of the "you hear a knock on the door.  It's her.  You invite her to come in.  She closes the door and with a gentle tug on the tie of her gown it falls to the floor and she stands before you nude, smiling.  Fade to black."

Some players in Tekumel went full-on "I sticked it in her mouf and she went oog," and I found it somewhere between banal and annoying.

Except the one guy who was a full on sicko, like "I'll break the whore's neck just as I cum so she spasms hard on my dick."  But he was pretty fucked up outside the game too.

I did wonder about Phil sometimes.  I understand "let your players do what they want," but Crom's hairy nutsack.

It's a source of enduring bemusement to me that gamers with no qualms about mass murder, graphic torture, human sacrifice, devil worship, thieving, piracy, assassination, genocide and just about every vice, crime and sin that's part of the mortal condition will -- almost uniquely -- consider depiction of eroticism to be Going Too Far.

But that's a different rant I've made more than once.

As far as whether there's anything about so-called "OSR" that ought to be particularly off-limits to it above and beyond any other gaming milieu, quite aside from that the first PC marriage I was in at a gaming table was in an Empire of the Petal Throne game in 1977, I can't think of a single non-idiotic reason why.

Who the fuck do you have on your table Gronan?  Shit you made my table look classy, well mannered, and gentlemen like.

Maybe you should do that rant Ravenswing because your not the only one to notice how we treat sex as a taboo subject while violence gets to run amok.

As for my view on things.  Depends on what setting you are in, what the players are doing, and where they are at.  If it is Ancient Rome and the players walk into the Emperor's son orgy party who know there will be sex.  If they are at a medieval setting church dedicated to a virgin god you know there won't be any sex.

Quote from: RPGPundit;870792What about everyone else here?  What do you think about this type of 'sleazy' play like Desborough seems to want to push?

I have zero interest.  Of course any setting with people in it will also have people having sex in it.  A blow by blow description at the tabletop is just tedious and annoying.  Good erotica is actually very hard to write.  It's very hard to write an erotic scene without it coming out sounding like someone is describing what is happening in a bad porn he is watching.  That's not something I want to waste game time on.      

Quote from: RPGPundit;870792Also, would your answer be any different if it was much more explicit and offensive stuff like the "rape an 11 year old virgin 11 times" stuff you see in Carcosa?

I don't play with the sort of people who would bring something like that into a game.

For me it just depends on how it's presented and why.
If it's done well... and serves some purpose of atmosphere or illustration I'm fine. If it's just some dork relating his thinly veiled porn fantasy... no thanks.

I don't think about it. People can do what they want in their games. If I want to do it in mine, and my group's down for it I will. If I don't, I won't. This whole "let's judge people for what they play pretend about" is old, tired shit.

Quote from: RPGPundit;870792There's some parts of old-school play that seem to like to emphasize a certain amount of erotic content; usually of the slightly sophomoric 'sleazy' variety, without ever really going into full-on sordid, and generally acting much more 'dangerous' than it really is.  I mean stuff like some of what you see in some of James Desborough's stuff (Machinations of the Space Princess), or some of Venger Satanis' work.

But I've never actually met gamers who tend to like to get into that stuff in actual play.  If you read my DCC campaign logs, some of it certainly sounds really very sordid, but in actual play almost all of the erotic stuff is only implied and/or happens totally 'off-camera'.

Sex definitely happens off-camera IMCs, typically "I take her to my room" then fade to black. Might go a bit further in some games but the general rule of thumb is that to be in the game it would need to be acceptable in an '18'/R-rated swords & sorcery film of the early 1980s, eg the first Conan film. I'll run Venger Satanis' stuff for my Wilderlands campaign, so you have 'Deathstalker' type level of 'skeevy' nudity, bondage, sex slavery, etc - the PCs are generally the good guys though; the last time I saw a PC commit rape was 15 years ago. And nothing like what Gronan describes. I also run PG-rated games with no skeeviness, and I guess my Forgotten Realms game has generally a '15' rating, so it varies.

In general, I'm a fade-to-black person, although I don't have a strict policy on the matter. I'm not into playing out detailed sex scenarios with people I am not sexually involved with, which cover most people I game with. And while I have dated a few women I gamed with, I am not into playing out detailed sex scenarios with them while everyone else at the table has to sit and watch.

Honestly, I really don't care if other people are into it. I'm not that bothered when it happens. I'm just not going to be the one to bring it to the table.

Quote from: TristramEvans;870820I don't think about it. People can do what they want in their games. If I want to do it in mine, and my group's down for it I will. If I don't, I won't. This whole "let's judge people for what they play pretend about" is old, tired shit.

I don't disagree, especially since it's been my observation that the gamers who sneer at groups which don't touch eroticism are outnumbered about fifty to one by the ones who sneer at the gamers that do.

Who here is even doing that though?

Quote from: yosemitemike;870834Who here is even doing that though?

I kinda feel a hobby that already has enough negative stereotypes hanging off of it and its practitioners can ill-afford the "mouthbreathing fatso creepers getting each other off with fifth rate Playboy prose in a dank basement" stereotype (which I believe RPGs have mostly avoided to date). I certainly won't stop anyone else, but at my table there's an unspoken agreement against anything that would feel out of place in a mainstream 1950s movie.

I am probably more of a fade to black person as well but that stuff can factor in when it is relevant or has an effect on things. We have love and romance in our games, and I assume things happen off camera (if I need to know for any particular reason as GM, I will just ask the player to confirm that). But if you have a monster with a seduction ability or something I find that is best to deal with in play. Doesn't mean you play out things like you are 11 but you deal with it the way it might be dealt with in a horror movie or something. Usually I at least try to subtle about it though. For  example, my party encountered a serpent spirit that had a siren like voice and would lure mean to their death. She created a shrouding mist to conceal her true appearance and called to everyone. Some of their henchmen failed their rolls and ran into the fog with their arms outstretched, loudly proclaiming their love for the creature. The party then heard the "sounds of lovemaking followed by screams of pain and the sounds of cracking bones". So sort of off camera and dealt with fairly quickly.

Is eroticism an old-school thing?

I'm reminded of the hateful rabble at RPGnet who criticized Gygax as being tasteless for including such a thing. They were especially mortified when Gygax released The Canting Crew and the term "Tongue Pad" was used. Of course, if RPGnetters had bothered to actually read the things they criticized before criticizing them, they'd see that harlots had a probability of having some valuable information, and that's exactly what the term "Tongue Pad" referred to, not fellatio. The encounter has a function to the game.

Because it had function to the game, it had value to the player. Because it had value to the player, it could align the decision-making of the player with that of a character who maybe does seek out the encounter for the eroticism.

This is especially important when you take a step back. The encounter table also had a succubus and thieves who might pose as street-walkers. The risk of getting caught up with your pants down in one of these encounters is not worth bragging rights of getting to say your character scored. However, the risk may be worth gaining vital information.