This past week, our small group played a zombie miniature skirmish game and had some real fun with it.  They were free, brief (2 pages total) rules that covered enough ground to play some games.  I was going to use Savage Worlds at first, but there was some page flipping involved and figuring out raises- not that it's super tough- I just didn't feel like doing it.

Like I said- two page rules, we all had a great time and we'll be playing again.  Now obviously this was a wargame, but the same applies to rpg's (and we could just roleplay on top of the rules).  So the question is, how barebones would you go?

Just for the fyi- the game we played was called AKULA Rules: Skirmish Edition- yes, that's AR;SE.

For a one-shot game? Microlite20 or Barbarians of Lemuria, I think.

For a campaign I'd require something, well, meatier.

Quote from: RunningLaser;867593This past week, our small group played a zombie miniature skirmish game and had some real fun with it.  They were free, brief (2 pages total) rules that covered enough ground to play some games.  I was going to use Savage Worlds at first, but there was some page flipping involved and figuring out raises- not that it's super tough- I just didn't feel like doing it.

Like I said- two page rules, we all had a great time and we'll be playing again.  Now obviously this was a wargame, but the same applies to rpg's (and we could just roleplay on top of the rules).  So the question is, how barebones would you go?

Just for the fyi- the game we played was called AKULA Rules: Skirmish Edition- yes, that's AR;SE.

I've played enough with 1 page of rules and freeform that I'm sure I don't require many rules, at least not all the time:).
OTOH, I'm also running enough games with 200+ pages of rules-only content that it's kinda obvious I don't see "as few rules as humanly possible" as a goal in itself.

So, I can easily do away with any rules, but my rule is "use as little rules as possible for the kind of game you want, but no less".

I haven't found that exact point yet but there are some games that are too simplified for me.  The Schoolgirl RPG, which I bought because I am a sucker for anime RPGs, is essentially a mass of random tables with a resolution system that is so bare bones it almost isn't there.  Here's the system

Attributes are 2D6 divided by 3 and rounded down.  

To do something, roll 1D6 per point of the relevant attribute (which is whatever you can talk the GM into) and add them together.  If the result is 10+, you succeed.  If it's a contested task, both roll and highest roll wins.  There are a few more wrinkles like stress explosions but that's the gist of it.  That's a bit too bare bones for me.

Mongoose Traveller has its role-play die mechanic on less than 1 page. Everything is skill-based, so less rules to keep track of.

In general for RPGs, I believe Less is More, but many of the 24 hour RPG projects look better suited to one-shots than campaigns.

Quote from: yosemitemike;867637I haven't found that exact point yet but there are some games that are too simplified for me.  The Schoolgirl RPG, which I bought because I am a sucker for anime RPGs, is essentially a mass of random tables with a resolution system that is so bare bones it almost isn't there.  Here's the system

Attributes are 2D6 divided by 3 and rounded down.  

To do something, roll 1D6 per point of the relevant attribute (which is whatever you can talk the GM into) and add them together.  If the result is 10+, you succeed.  If it's a contested task, both roll and highest roll wins.  There are a few more wrinkles like stress explosions but that's the gist of it.  That's a bit too bare bones for me.

Funny, just yesterday I was thinking of using it for a longer campaign, and mostly gave up because I wasn't in the mood for anime;).

Quote from: RunningLaser;867593So the question is, how barebones would you go?

I guess something like Prussian Free Kriegsspiel - character has a description, no numbers. Try to do something, GM sets a probability of success on a d6 ("4 or higher succeeds") then roll. I suspect I wouldn't feel a completely diceless game where the GM declares success/failure without rolling was very satisfying, and the die encourages the GM to think about the odds carefully.

For a minis battle game, well I made one myself when I was 11/12, it turned out much like Warhammer - roll a d6 to hit, number needed varies depending on range, cover, movement etc, hit removes target. Base 4+ to hit, target in cover 5+, long range 5+, long range & cover 6+.

For my style of fantasy, Adventurers! is a decent super rules-lite choice.

Swords & six siders. Microlite 20. Fate accelerated. Dicey tails or barbarians of Lemuria.

Quote from: yosemitemike;867637I haven't found that exact point yet but there are some games that are too simplified for me.  The Schoolgirl RPG, which I bought because I am a sucker for anime RPGs, is essentially a mass of random tables with a resolution system that is so bare bones it almost isn't there.  Here's the system

Attributes are 2D6 divided by 3 and rounded down.  

To do something, roll 1D6 per point of the relevant attribute (which is whatever you can talk the GM into) and add them together.  If the result is 10+, you succeed.  If it's a contested task, both roll and highest roll wins.  There are a few more wrinkles like stress explosions but that's the gist of it.  That's a bit too bare bones for me.

ah i played a game with a D100 roll under system at a con abit ago and tell the truth that was exactly how it left me feeling it was to light sure i can "TRY" any thing but at the end of the day in a system with a tweaked chars skills cap out at 40% in a system with no modifiers at all every thing pretty much comes down to DM deus ex machina with a little bit of crap shoot on the side

I've run Microlite 20 and Risus. I cant see a long campaign with Risus. But I definitely could with M20. I haven't run it yet but I'm looking forward to running one dice pulp at some point. Clearly I don't have a problem with lite games. I guess I'm in to the medium to light crunch stuff these days. I look at heavy systems and I just grumble to myself and shake my head. Its more than what I want to deal with.

The simplest rules to use are the ones you and your group are used to playing with.

There is a degree of crunchy vs lite in many system comparisons, but sometimes games that are billed as 'lite' can actually leave many players facing a blank canvas when it comes to character design, for example, whereas 'crunchy' games can become quite intuitive if they are internally logical.  

I have played Mongoose Traveller a lot in recent years, as I have Call of Cthulhu, D&D, Doctor Who, RuneQuest and various World of Darkness games. That'll do for me.

It depends a lot on who I'm playing with.
I've played games with kids that were basically just make-believe with impromptu dice rolling for points of contention.
With good friends I'd probably be fine with any of the ultra-lite/freeform storygames.
But if I'm playing with strangers or guys I'm not longtime pals with I generally want something a bit more solid under foot.
I played a game of Stalker online with strangers and, though I had a good time, it was too nebulous for me with those players.

It doesn't really take a lot of space to explain a core mechanic. And I prefer simplified stat blocks.

I do prefer detail on other things. I like a detailed skill list, not just "make up whatever you'd like." Same for spells, magic items, and monsters. Yes. I already know I can make up whatever I like. But surely there are some skill areas or spells or monsters that are more common than others for one reason or another specific to the game world or the nature of things. And it would seem like a lot of mental overhead on my part just to get a so-called "simple" ruleset off the ground.

That said, there are two different pieces to the game. I did take the Lejendary Adventure RPG and boil it down to a 4-page cheat sheet for core mechanics, situation modifiers, and skills (including their descriptions). I'd have a hard time imagine anything less than this would work for me. Maybe you could refine it down to 3 1/2 pages. It's hard to imagine an RPG 3 pages or less that would actually appeal to me

The multitude of spells, magic items, and monsters, on the other hand, is about 400 more pages of material. I could tolerate that figure being cut to one quarter the size for the sake of an introductory set. However 400 is about right for a complete set, and I'd be open to expansions to bring the total to around 1000+ pages.